Waterworld

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Virgo
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Waterworld

Post by Virgo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:33 am

This one is from a couple of months ago, but I never posted it here, so here goes.

This is based on a study that came out in Febuary.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... celerating



Thanks,

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks/videos
http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGs4ZMOyq4

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:00 pm

For a more technical discussion...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/deco ... chine.html

If you know anyone who is still denying the human factor in climate change, suggest this to them. tl;dr, or rather tl;dw: the rise in temperature is out of sync with the natural cycle attributable to wobble; the atmospheric carbon levels have not been this high in millions of years; we can identify the carbon in the atmosphere as coming from burning hydrocarbons; things are not as bad as they should be because the forests and oceans have absorbed 50% of the carbon we've released; temperatures are not as high as they could be (20 degrees warmer) because the oceans have absorbed most of the heat.

The even shorter version?

We are screwed and its all our fault. But... knowing how it works, we can theoretically slow, stop, and even reverse the process. We have a chance.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:30 pm

It was greed that got us here ( from lightbeings, to dense material form ), and looks like it will be greed again that will be our demise...
Funny ,what goes around. .comes around....full circle. .

We won't willingly reverse this cycle.....a catastrophic event will.....

But i naively hope that won't happen....
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:57 pm

In my younger and naively idealistic days, I deeply sympathized with the approach of Earth First! I don't agree with their fundamental philosophical position anymore - more or less the misanthropic view that humanity is a cancer. I did and continue to admire some of their direct actions - tree sitting and tree spiking (as long as warnings were issued to the logging companies) to prevent logging.

The environment is an existential issue, and its seeming to me that a commensurate direct action is called for. At this time, I don't know what it could be. I know though that it must be non-violent and ethical. Its beyond getting permits and marching with signs that peak as viral social media posts. We need real, analog impact. I look at my children, and the sense of urgency I feel is growing to the point it cannot be ignored or placated with smug overtures of personal virtue.

:thinking:

Suggestions?

:stirthepot:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:06 pm

Well, if the city's that have the highest pollution would just stop polluting for one day......and be monetized /rewarded, for that contribution towards environmental consciousness. ...maybe it would catch on, and extended to longer periods of time . People should be rewarded for stopping production....it's only greed that makes them not want to stop.

:shrug:
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:06 pm
Well, if the city's that have the highest pollution would just stop polluting for one day......and be monetized /rewarded, for that contribution towards environmental consciousness. ...maybe it would catch on, and extended to longer periods of time . People should be rewarded for stopping production....it's only greed that makes them not want to stop.

:shrug:
I'm not seeing a workable plan there.

Who would pay these cities to suspend activity for a day? Leave aside what kind of complexity that actually would involve. Who would do this rewarding?

A deeper question is, how is this reward based system a departure from the cause of our present predicament?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:26 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:17 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:06 pm
Well, if the city's that have the highest pollution would just stop polluting for one day......and be monetized /rewarded, for that contribution towards environmental consciousness. ...maybe it would catch on, and extended to longer periods of time . People should be rewarded for stopping production....it's only greed that makes them not want to stop.

:shrug:
I'm not seeing a workable plan there.

Who would pay these cities to suspend activity for a day? Leave aside what kind of complexity that actually would involve. Who would do this rewarding?

A deeper question is, how is this reward based system a departure from the cause of our present predicament?
I haven't figured the financial yet...lol....i'm an idealist that never worries about money....
Maybe all the countries that want to implement this, can make donations adding up to whatever losses. ...that country had from stopping production....we all help each other...one days profit for one country can go to one days loss to another....helping each other like that....every thing happens so slowly when there is change.....it will be a start...then all the rest will eventually be worked out towards the end goal. ....clean & healthy environment on this planet.....

Production must be controlled...environmental
Engineers figure out the safe reversal needed to
Attain a clean environment. ...tax breaks for those making sacrifice, more profit for those with less production.....it must be better to not be productive....more reward systems....and penalties for those that don't comply.....and possible shut down of their toxic businesses.
Last edited by Kunga Lhadzom on Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:43 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:26 pm
I haven't figured the financial yet...lol....i'm an idealist that never worries about money....
Maybe all the countries that want to implement this, can make donations adding up to whatever losses. ...that country had from stopping production....we all help each other...one days profit for one country can go to one days loss to another....helping each other like that....every thing happens so slowly when there is change.....it will be a start...then all the rest will eventually be worked out towards the end goal. ....clean & healthy environment on this planet.....
Alright. Well, I appreciate the intention.

I think you put the horse before the cart on this one.

A more likely scenario would have rich nations paying subsidies to poorer, high polluting nations to update their energy production, but to get there, we'd need the consciousness changed first. I don't think we are even close to that yet.

As you suggested above, its not likely this change happens before the catastrophic event, and even then, I don't underestimate human capacity for denial. It might seem insane, but there is a significant and influential segment of the population who actually thinks this end of the world is a good thing and heralds the arrival of the First Zombie.

That's why I'm looking for wrenches to throw into the machine. We aint got time for enlightened consciousness to get around...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

tingdzin
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Re: Waterworld

Post by tingdzin » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:58 pm

There is nothing that can be done to stop the environmental collapse of the world now, short of a catastrophic and sudden decrease in the human population. Humanity is simply not capable of acting in unison in such a way that disaster could be averted. I would love to be proven wrong, and I will cooperate wholeheartedly in any reasonable attempts to avert this fate, but I simply don't believe it will happen. My heart bleeds for the young people who will rightfully look back on the greed, selfishness, and deliberate ignorance of their forebears, but the best we can do for them is to impress upon them while they are young not to expect that they will be able to conquer samasara, as the hubris-saturated generations of recent times have done.

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:06 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:26 pm
Production must be controlled...environmental
Engineers figure out the safe reversal needed to
Attain a clean environment. ...tax breaks for those making sacrifice, more profit for those with less production.....it must be better to not be productive....more reward systems....and penalties for those that don't comply.....and possible shut down of their toxic businesses.
Too regressive. That will never work. And as much as I appreciate the goal, I would be against it. At best, you're talking about "tax and trade". Even though it hasn't really been implemented - as far as I know - I'm cynical that it will have the effect advertised. Its one of those magic thinking theories like supply side economics.

If we actually started penalizing at a level that would make human activity cost what it really costs in terms of damage to health and the environment, that would put people out of work at large scales, and unrest would follow, blowing up any and all plans. Just ask the Syrians.

That said, I take back what I said about wrenches. That wouldn't work either.

We need a change in consciousness. The direct action would have to have the goal of making the environment the overwhelming moral question of the moment, just as MLKJr.'s direct action was intended to make civil rights an issue that could not be ignored any longer.

In the big picture, we need clean energy, large scale efficiencies, and then some sort of carbon capture tech to actually reverse the CO2 levels. We know what the goal is. Now we need a plan to immanentize these approaches as policy.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Virgo
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Virgo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:08 pm

Good discussion. Thanks for the infos and input.

I believe this is the way forward:



Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks/videos
http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGs4ZMOyq4

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Virgo
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Virgo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:08 pm



Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks/videos
http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGs4ZMOyq4

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:12 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:58 pm
There is nothing that can be done to stop the environmental collapse of the world now, short of a catastrophic and sudden decrease in the human population. Humanity is simply not capable of acting in unison in such a way that disaster could be averted. I would love to be proven wrong, and I will cooperate wholeheartedly in any reasonable attempts to avert this fate, but I simply don't believe it will happen. My heart bleeds for the young people who will rightfully look back on the greed, selfishness, and deliberate ignorance of their forebears, but the best we can do for them is to impress upon them while they are young not to expect that they will be able to conquer samasara, as the hubris-saturated generations of recent times have done.
Yes, population.

Free rubbers for all! Birth Control Pills in Pez Dispensers For All!

My friend, we are beyond "reasonable attempts". I think we need to up the game to "All Possible Non-Violent Means". People should feel like quitting their jobs over this. I do. I just don't know what to do once I quit.

As for conquering Samsara... if we didn't encourage them to conquer, wouldn't we be dropping the ball passing on the teachings of the Greatest Conquerer, the Buddha?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:19 pm

Virgo wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:08 pm
Good discussion. Thanks for the infos and input.

I believe this is the way forward:
I didn't see the videos - I will check them out later. I surmise from the titles, they're talking about nuclear power? There is something to that. We need to improve the technology, but clearly, it is one of the options to pursue.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Virgo
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Virgo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:28 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:19 pm
Virgo wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:08 pm
Good discussion. Thanks for the infos and input.

I believe this is the way forward:
I didn't see the videos - I will check them out later. I surmise from the titles, they're talking about nuclear power? There is something to that. We need to improve the technology, but clearly, it is one of the options to pursue.
Yes, these two videos have quite a bit of information Que. I highly recommend them. :namaste:

:namaste: Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks/videos
http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGs4ZMOyq4

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:31 am

Did you know that mushrooms have the ability to break down toxic things in our environment like dirty oil, plastic, and chemicals? This process is called mycoremediation.
http://fungially.com/mycoremediation-us ... vironment/



Stamets’ ideas have gained an expanding audience among mainstream scientists, environmental engineers, federal officials and Silicon Valley investors. His 2008 talk at the TED Conference, the annual hajj of tech barons and thought leaders, has snagged more than 1.5 million hits since it was posted online; it also earned Stamets invitations to brainstorming sessions with Bill Gates, Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos and the guys who run Google.

“It helps that he’s brilliant,” says Eric Rasmussen, a former Defense Department scientist and disaster expert collaborating with Stamets to decontaminate the zone around Japan’s Fukushima nuclear reactor with mushrooms. Rasmussen compares Stamets to visionary entrepreneur-scientists like Thomas Edison or “some of the truly fine amateur naturalists or astronomers of the 17th and 18th centuries — people who were experts in their fields, but had other ways to occupy their days.”
http://discovermagazine.com/2013/julyau ... man-health
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

tingdzin
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Re: Waterworld

Post by tingdzin » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:01 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:12 pm
As for conquering Samsara... if we didn't encourage them to conquer, wouldn't we be dropping the ball passing on the teachings of the Greatest Conquerer, the Buddha?
Well, Shakyamuni encouraged conquering ourselves, not the outside world, I think.

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Queequeg
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Queequeg » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:11 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:12 pm
As for conquering Samsara... if we didn't encourage them to conquer, wouldn't we be dropping the ball passing on the teachings of the Greatest Conquerer, the Buddha?
Well, Shakyamuni encouraged conquering ourselves, not the outside world, I think.
Isn't that where samsara is found?

It's all the other samsaric efforts to conquer samsara that are futile...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Virgo
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Re: Waterworld

Post by Virgo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:49 pm

James Hansen, who speaks in the video above, is one of the worlds leading climatologists.

Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks/videos
http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGs4ZMOyq4

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Waterworld

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:09 pm

Everything is divided
Nothing is complete
Everything looks impressive
Do not be deceived - David Byrne

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