Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

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Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Virgo » Sat May 12, 2018 9:29 pm

On Trump's movement to unilateralism:



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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Rick » Sat May 12, 2018 11:55 pm

Unilateralism seems to me like a natural consequence of Trumptastrophe's megalomania/narcissism. Dude either doesn't give a hoot about the big picture ... or, maybe worse, doesn't see it. He's a screaming ME machine ... and having graduated from tv to political reality-showbiz his ME now encompasses "America" (the nostalgic concept of, not the reality) and white rich businessmen/autocrats/powermongers of his ilk and (maybe) his nuclear family.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by The Cicada » Sun May 13, 2018 12:09 am

Rick wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:55 pm
Unilateralism seems to me like a natural consequence of Trumptastrophe's megalomania/narcissism. Dude either doesn't give a hoot about the big picture ... or, maybe worse, doesn't see it. He's a screaming ME machine ... and having graduated from tv to political reality-showbiz his ME now encompasses "America" (the nostalgic concept of, not the reality) and white rich businessmen/autocrats/powermongers of his ilk and (maybe) his nuclear family.
What can or should be done in your opinion?

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Wayfarer » Sun May 13, 2018 12:47 am

It is megalomania, the 'I alone can solve' mentality, seen often during the campaign, having sacked all of the moderating influences around him. The only silver lining is that he is fenced in by a constitutional system, but he's sorely testing it.
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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Virgo » Sun May 13, 2018 1:10 am

Good comments.

Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
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གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Sun May 13, 2018 10:47 am

Trump is a narcissist and everything has to be about him. Even when he was welcoming back the three released prisoners from North Korea at 3 A.M. he had to talk about the t.v. ratings.

Its obvious that he doesn't know what he is doing. Like a child, he just says what he feels at the moment. He lacks knowledge, common sense, and decency, and composes his advisors of "yes men."

Shameful time for the U.S. Hopefully he will be indicted and impeached. Yet, what is even more baffling and sad are the people that continue to support him.
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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Jeff H » Sun May 13, 2018 2:31 pm

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:47 am
Its obvious that he doesn't know what he is doing.
My worst fear is that maybe he actually does.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Rick » Sun May 13, 2018 3:01 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:09 am
Rick wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:55 pm
Unilateralism seems to me like a natural consequence of Trumptastrophe's megalomania/narcissism. Dude either doesn't give a hoot about the big picture ... or, maybe worse, doesn't see it. He's a screaming ME machine ... and having graduated from tv to political reality-showbiz his ME now encompasses "America" (the nostalgic concept of, not the reality) and white rich businessmen/autocrats/powermongers of his ilk and (maybe) his nuclear family.
What can or should be done in your opinion?
Republicans in Congress growing some ethical/moral cojones instead of bowing and scraping before a snake-oil-hawking madman would be a good start. But that will only happen when speaking out against Trump(ed-Up) will ensure rather than endanger their job security and — given the solid 40% who would follow Tramp off a cliff just because the liberals are not stupid enough to take the leap — that is not going to happen for a while (if ever).

Barring a Republican Party ethical transformation miracle ... I dunno, more of the same? Unrelenting hard-hitting critique and condemnation from the press, concerted and savvy efforts by the Democrats and other anti-Trumpistos, states like California and sanctuary cities/counties continuing to do their best to thwart the rise of authoritarianism, student (college and high-school) and other grass-roots protest. The change will probably be evolutionary rather than revolutionary ... the 40% have too much clout, money, power. The infection is too deep to go away overnight.

What do you think might help this country/globe heal?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Rick » Sun May 13, 2018 3:08 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:31 pm
Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:47 am
Its obvious that he doesn't know what he is doing.
My worst fear is that maybe he actually does.
I think he knows he's a contestant on Global Survivor and is willing to do pretty much anything that will lead to his beating everyone else.

Image
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by The Cicada » Sun May 13, 2018 6:34 pm

Rick wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 3:01 pm
What do you think might help this country/globe heal?
Run around like Nichiren as depicted in that old NHK historical series shouting (according to the subtitles) "You must all change your minds!"

Trying to impeach a democratically elected leader, even if a significant number of people strongly dislike him, only leads to further weakening our democratic system through the precedent that it sets. The proper thing to do for those who find what he represents to be irksome is to plan for 2020 and concentrate on reaching out to a broader base that will overturn the influence of his. There might even be a need to acknowledge the validity of the concerns of those who supported and still support him and take some action to address those concerns. I don't see any of that happening. The will to power is very strong with this generation.

Trump is kind of a serving of big, fat, troll-faced karma to those who dislike him. He's chaos, and that's what he was meant to be. How Buddhists fail to find opportunity amidst chaos is beyond me, and every brick his opposition defecates just goes towards the border wall. Maybe he's a student of Sun Tzu himself.



And if he is, he obviously took those lessons to heart.

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun May 13, 2018 8:12 pm

Much as I might disagree with your personal politics Cicada, I think your read on the 2020 situation is pretty much spot on.
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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Rick » Sun May 13, 2018 9:12 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:34 pm
Trying to impeach a democratically elected leader, even if a significant number of people strongly dislike him, only leads to further weakening our democratic system through the precedent that it sets.
If the leader is causing enough damage to country and world, stopping this leader beats potentially weakening our democratic system, which is in serious need of an overhaul anyway. Imo Trump is doing that damage right now ... has already done a bunch of it, wounds that will take years (decades?) to heal. But I recognize and am willing to listen to people who don't agree.
The proper thing to do for those who find what he represents to be irksome is to plan for 2020 and concentrate on reaching out to a broader base that will overturn the influence of his. There might even be a need to acknowledge the validity of the concerns of those who supported and still support him and take some action to address those concerns.
I agree with planning for 2018 and 2020. (If the Republicans are trounced in 2018 Trump is gonna be muzzled and less capable of doing harm.) Though I wouldn't abandon the current fight.

And I strongly agree with acknowledging the needs and desires of his (sane) supporters. There's never been more need for tolerant and peaceful bipartisan conversation and compromise that I can remember. It's like a frickin' cold civil war in this country now.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun May 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Rick wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:12 pm
The Cicada wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:34 pm
Trying to impeach a democratically elected leader, even if a significant number of people strongly dislike him, only leads to further weakening our democratic system through the precedent that it sets.
If the leader is causing enough damage to country and world, stopping this leader beats potentially weakening our democratic system, which is in serious need of an overhaul anyway. Imo Trump is doing that damage right now ... has already done a bunch of it, wounds that will take years (decades?) to heal. But I recognize and am willing to listen to people who don't agree.
The proper thing to do for those who find what he represents to be irksome is to plan for 2020 and concentrate on reaching out to a broader base that will overturn the influence of his. There might even be a need to acknowledge the validity of the concerns of those who supported and still support him and take some action to address those concerns.
I agree with planning for 2018 and 2020. (If the Republicans are trounced in 2018 Trump is gonna be muzzled and less capable of doing harm.) Though I wouldn't abandon the current fight.

And I strongly agree with acknowledging the needs and desires of his (sane) supporters. There's never been more need for tolerant and peaceful bipartisan conversation and compromise that I can remember. It's like a frickin' cold civil war in this country now.
I can't stand Trump or his politics, but I fail to see how he is any less "democratic" than Obama or Bush, both of whom shredded the fourth amendment and brought about all kinds of ghastly precedents that are now standard. Examples? Drone bombing, persecution of journalists, strengthening surveillance, etc.

Trump is a boob, and basically a cartoon villain, and will surely try to siphon even more money to the wealthy, but none of the things he's doing begin with him. I also don't see his unilateralism as more frightening than the imperial neoliberal multilaterialism that existed prior to him. Indeed, if anything he seems be be slowing integrating with this system anyway, even if he is rocking the boat a bit.
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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Rick » Mon May 14, 2018 1:39 am

Begin rant ...

Trump is more than just a boob and cartoon villain ... he's an enabler of violence, gross to subtle: racism, fear-mongering, truth-trashing, press-quashing, anti-science, anti-cooperation, anti-kindness/compassion, anti-honor. He makes his supporters (and even, egads, some of his arch opposers!) feel like it's okay to think and act repulsively. He's a junior-high-school-level megalomaniacal narcissist who holds the most powerful position in the world and who probably wouldn't feel a pang of guilt if he helped start a war that killed thousands as long as it made him feel like King of the World! And he's got what is imo the ugliest form of street smarts: He can manipulate people's emotions and incite them to think and do truly vile things. His two main saving graces: 1) his awfulness is waking Americans up and inspiring them to get active (kinda sorta); 2) he will become (perhaps already is) the new nadir of American president ... in effect creating a baseline from which to assess future presidents.

End rant.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon May 14, 2018 2:32 am

Rick wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:39 am
Begin rant ...

Trump is more than just a boob and cartoon villain ... he's an enabler of violence, gross to subtle: racism, fear-mongering, truth-trashing, press-quashing, anti-science, anti-cooperation, anti-kindness/compassion, anti-honor. He makes his supporters (and even, egads, some of his arch opposers!) feel like it's okay to think and act repulsively. He's a junior-high-school-level megalomaniacal narcissist who holds the most powerful position in the world and who probably wouldn't feel a pang of guilt if he helped start a war that killed thousands as long as it made him feel like King of the World! And he's got what is imo the ugliest form of street smarts: He can manipulate people's emotions and incite them to think and do truly vile things. His two main saving graces: 1) his awfulness is waking Americans up and inspiring them to get active (kinda sorta); 2) he will become (perhaps already is) the new nadir of American president ... in effect creating a baseline from which to assess future presidents.

End rant.
90% smoke and mirrors. There's Trump the Icon - where he meets the definition of what you are talking about, but that is really all just a show, as a president he is a republican, and particularly inept one, but so far in terms of policy he doesn't seem much different from Bush II, and some of his worst ideas have so far gone up in smoke. If you wanna talk about unilateral military action, unlike Bush II hasn't even invaded a country yet! So you are here talking about his personality, as if that's the pressing issue of our time. Did you care about Obama's record with the press? What about the Iraq war under Bush? Remember Enron? Is Trump personally being a racist asshat somehow worse than the egregious crimes of the two previous administrations? I'm as grossed out as anyone else, I just don't know how people think the sky is falling when every administration in my lifetime has been criminal.

People in my town can't even pay rent any more, prices have gone so high since the techy gentrifiers moved in (who mostly see themselves as "liberal" warriors for social justice, in a nice twist of historical irony, as they run the poors out of town), there are addicts roaming the streets with no avenues of help available, Amazon is set to take over parts of the federal government, and sometimes just doesn't like to pay taxes, big tech is a monopoly, and continues to gobble up power, dictate policy, and wreck the economy of cities. If you wanna complain about where we are at, complain about where we at then- including Trump's sizable role in things like de-regulation attempts, but Trump's personality is old news, everyone knows he's an vile idiot, hell, I think even his supporters know it. The refusal of the left to deal with concrete issues of our time and instead focus on Trump's (admittedly disgusting) personality is one of the things that enabled him to be president, if people keep doing it, he will be president again, I am pretty sure. It's not hat he's so good at manipulation, it's that his opposition is no non existent that all he has to do is make inane promises to the demographic they are ignoring, throw in some good ol' xenophobia, and he outperforms.

End rant on my end.
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-Jeff H.

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Virgo » Mon May 14, 2018 3:18 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:32 am

People in my town can't even pay rent any more, prices have gone so high since the techy gentrifiers moved in (who mostly see themselves as "liberal" warriors for social justice, in a nice twist of historical irony, as they run the poors out of town), there are addicts roaming the streets with no avenues of help available, Amazon is set to take over parts of the federal government, and sometimes just doesn't like to pay taxes, big tech is a monopoly, and continues to gobble up power.
This is the result of policies we have now and have had in the past. If we go to the Nordic model, we will see these problems dissolve. We could remove many of the ills of society.

Kevin...
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ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Ayu » Mon May 14, 2018 7:20 am

The tragedy is that the Trump fans feel save in their bubble of misinformation. Nobody can reach them.


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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon May 14, 2018 7:33 am

The American empire has been in decline for a while... Trump is a symptom, not a sudden cause. Trumps fans are indeed misinformed, IMO so are 90% of self described liberals who live their own bubble these days, one which involves distinctly ignoring some of the reasons for Trump's success, and simply focusing on platitudes and complaints about his personality.
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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by PeterC » Mon May 14, 2018 9:51 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:47 am
... Yet, what is even more baffling and sad are the people that continue to support him.
Sadly, this is not too mysterious.

For the Republican party, who (temporarily) control house, senate and presidency, this is a chance to ram through as many federal judicial appointments as possible. Hard to overstate how valuable that is for them.

For the actual electorate that continue to support him - in large part the blame lies with the democrats. They abandoned their natural role as the party of the blue collar worker, as opposed to the Republicans who had over time become the party of the plutocrats. They abandoned the rural electorate. They allowed that territory to be claimed by the religious, the racist and the xenophobic, because they had simple and comforting stories to tell that work with those voters. It will be decades, if ever, before they can retake that. It was not helped by the Republicans deciding that truth wasn't an important part of public life, but they should have known what they were doing.

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Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism

Post by Ayu » Mon May 14, 2018 10:08 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:33 am
The American empire has been in decline for a while... Trump is a symptom, not a sudden cause. Trumps fans are indeed misinformed, IMO so are 90% of self described liberals who live their own bubble these days, one which involves distinctly ignoring some of the reasons for Trump's success, and simply focusing on platitudes and complaints about his personality.
Pardon me, it seems to me there is too much anger in the American thinking and behavior. Leftist, "liberal" or rightist - there seems to be much overreaction against eachother. Maybe (hopefully) my view is tainted, because I'm litarally far away from USA and I only met a few Americans in my life.
To me it seems - since 2012 - the behavior and expression of thoughts became more and more aggressive. So, often I observe angry speech without real reason. It makes me wonder what is going on over there in your big country.

(In Europe/Germany there are not less problems, but I perceive the atmosphere differently. Maybe I'm completely wrong.)
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Hate is too great a burden to bear.
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