So, Anthony Bourdain...

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Minobu
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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Minobu » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:16 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:34 am

Of course it's tragic, but as a Buddhist it's weeks like this that remind me of the real truth behind the whole Samsara is endless reality. Not being smug, but I feel pretty damn fortunate to have the dharma as my guide, knowing all ends in tears if you take things to be permanent.
well said...and i agree...
i loved this guy...really loved him ...and there are no other celebrities i would actually say that of....and mean it...
Can a Buddhist say RIP?
Wow...for me thats a deep question ...very deep....
Everything i learned says we don't ever get to rest until....well until Buddhahood....and even them i suppose the work is never finished...

That being said even though the question is posed...i know you want only the best for the sentient that spent some time here...

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:38 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:38 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:16 am
Well said CW.
There are Ketamine clinics popping up after some amazing test results for multiple mental health conditions.
Shrooms are excellent for depression, but only under supervised use.
Or if you are competent with their usage. A lot of people micro-dose nowadays, it's very helpful for alot of conditions. They are ridiculously easy to grow, especially now. Back in the day you needed to be vigilant with contaminations, now you can buy sealed bags that are premade, they simply have a micro-filter patch (it's in the nanometer range), you simply inject the spores into the patch, put some medical tape over the injection site, and let it do it's thing. The bags usually contain some form of manure, mixed with straw, which has been pasteurized using heat. Some also contain seeds, etc. Same deal. Mushrooms love eating that kind of stuff, especially Psilocybe cubensis.

All of this should be legal, but it's not so I don't recommend anyone doing it. Just wait a couple decades, and it will be in common use for depression, anxiety, and many other mental disorders. You also need to be familiar with the culture to know which vendors are safe to buy from, a lot of these places are watched/monitored, and would sell your data to the police in a hot second if they were threatened with a lawsuit.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:06 am

I was far more upset when Robin Williams left this world, I loved that guy. If you haven't seen the movie he did: "What Dreams May Come", you really should watch it.. it's an amazing movie.

All deaths are tragic in a way, but at the same time, it's the consequence of being able to live in the first place. You can also question whether these people are really gone. How much of them are inside your minds?

Suicide is a topic that should get more coverage, I find it sad that it takes the death of a few celebs to make it a big deal. It's always been a big deal. More people commit suicide than there are murders.
Close to 800 000 people die due to suicide every year, which is one person every 40 seconds. Many more attempt suicide. Suicide occurs throughout the lifespan and is the second leading cause of death among 15-29-year-olds globally.
There are indications that for each adult who died of suicide there may have been more than 20 others attempting suicide.
Close to ONE MILLION people per year globally, and if everyone who attempted it succeeded, it would be close to TWENTY MILLION.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/preven ... revent/en/
In 2012, there were an estimated 8.2 million deaths from cancer in the world
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... lcVeBxRWDg

So, technically suicide is a bigger deal than CANCER, yet it really get's no coverage, I wonder why that is? No one want's to think about it. People are misjudged for attempting it. I have personal experience with attempting suicide, quite a few times in fact. One of my best friends blew his brains out in a park after breaking up with his girlfriend.

He was not the "TYPE" in my mind to commit suicide, I found it very odd. So, You just never know. It's impossible to, not even the best-trained professionals will know if someone is genuinely suicidal because they will tell no one. You get locked up in a very annoying place when you tell someone this, which doesn't even help you, haha.

They may tell one or two people sometimes, but they will almost never reveal how serious they are, they will just mention the topic in passing, and if they are really committed to it, they are just going to go do it without saying a word. People who talk about it are typically looking for help.

Seriously, if you report that someone is suicidal the cops will come get them, and most of the time they are not trained to deal with suicidal people, and because of that many suicidal people just end up using the police to do the work. Death by cop, it's very common and quite easy to pull off. Cops are very jumpy when they get these kind of calls typically. I've dealt with some good ones, and some bad ones. However, when they come and get you, you get handcuffed, and arrested. It's called being TDO'd. Temporary Detaining Order. Involuntary Stay at a mental hospital. It sucks, and these places are terrible, they don't help a frak soul, let me tell you. If anything they make people worse, and they are essentially holding cages. Oh, unless you are rich, and go to a cushy one costing 20,000$ per month. If you don't have insurance, you are frak. It will ruin you. These places cost ALOT.

Mental illness is still quite a taboo subject. Hopefully, all this coverage will lead to something good.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:22 am

Thankfully we have Vajrayana. In bad place, I can count on mantras. That always works for me.
Vajra Killah Killallaya

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by kirtu » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:13 pm

Unfortunately Americans are overwhelmed by a great deal of complex hopeless, anger and other serious emotional disfunction. The Consumer Paradise is not the success that it tends to project.

My sister probably killed herself because of rage issues combined with feelings of loss after my fathers death ( but I don't know exactly because my family is non-communicative). I also didn't help her much when I confronted her after she threatened to kill herself. I knew she had probably killed herself because she appeared in my dreams for three nights before I got the news of her death, typically blaming me for her death and for her poor life (I was distracted by my family at 13 over the consequences of my parents divorce and my sisters garbing for family 'power after we were kidnapped by my father a couple of years after the divorce. But the facts are that neither of my sisters spoke to me for some 30 years or more after I graduated from college and they had virtually no contact with me after we left Hawaii [so from 16 on]).

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Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Queequeg » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:03 pm

kirtu wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:13 pm
Unfortunately Americans are overwhelmed by a great deal of complex hopeless, anger and other serious emotional disfunction. The Consumer Paradise is not the success that it tends to project.

My sister probably killed herself because of rage issues combined with feelings of loss after my fathers death ( but I don't know exactly because my family is non-communicative). I also didn't help her much when I confronted her after she threatened to kill herself. I knew she had probably killed herself because she appeared in my dreams for three nights before I got the news of her death, typically blaming me for her death and for her poor life (I was distracted by my family at 13 over the consequences of my parents divorce and my sisters garbing for family 'power after we were kidnapped by my father a couple of years after the divorce. But the facts are that neither of my sisters spoke to me for some 30 years or more after I graduated from college and they had virtually no contact with me after we left Hawaii [so from 16 on]).

Kirt
Metta to you, Kirt.

The materialist culture is tending to what should be expected when life is reduced to chemical reaction.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Dan74 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:05 pm

Much love for anyone who has been affected by suicide or suicidal thoughts. Kirt, QQ, Jesse, Bourdain's family and fans, of course.

You are always always welcome to contact, when needed. Of course, I am not qualified and Lifeline is a better place to call. Sometimes though some familiarity can be good. I've found it invaluable at difficult times to know that there were people I could turn to, and to whom what I did actually mattered. I will never be able to repay this debt to them, but can be there for others in similar situations, hopefully.

_/|\_

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:28 pm

kirtu wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:13 pm
Unfortunately Americans are overwhelmed by a great deal of complex hopeless, anger and other serious emotional disfunction. The Consumer Paradise is not the success that it tends to project.

My sister probably killed herself because of rage issues combined with feelings of loss after my fathers death ( but I don't know exactly because my family is non-communicative). I also didn't help her much when I confronted her after she threatened to kill herself. I knew she had probably killed herself because she appeared in my dreams for three nights before I got the news of her death, typically blaming me for her death and for her poor life (I was distracted by my family at 13 over the consequences of my parents divorce and my sisters garbing for family 'power after we were kidnapped by my father a couple of years after the divorce. But the facts are that neither of my sisters spoke to me for some 30 years or more after I graduated from college and they had virtually no contact with me after we left Hawaii [so from 16 on]).

Kirt
Om Mani Padme Hum...... :hug:

I just can't imagine my friend, I always hate myself when I'm suicidal.. sorry if this is too much to share on here..... but I've been very close to committing suicide a number of times, and the thing that always stops me is, well you get an intense rush of emotions when your really close..

but I got a "Vision" of what killing myself would do to my family... it was made very clear to me that it would destroy them, especially my mother. If it was not for my family, I would have committed suicide years ago, I'm sorry to say.

In a way, suicide is so ridiculously selfish, but at the same time... you can't blame a suicidal person, the pain they are going through is just incomprehensible, if you've never been suicidal to the point of actually trying to do it.. you just can't understand... I have sympathy for victims of suicide (friends, and family members especially...)

I wish I had answers, and I wish I could help every single person suffering from that pain... I really truly do. I FUC.KING HATE mental illness..... :crying: :crying:

:buddha2: :buddha1:
Last edited by Jesse on Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:39 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:05 pm
Much love for anyone who has been affected by suicide or suicidal thoughts. Kirt, QQ, Jesse, Bourdain's family and fans, of course.

You are always always welcome to contact, when needed. Of course, I am not qualified and Lifeline is a better place to call. Sometimes though some familiarity can be good. I've found it invaluable at difficult times to know that there were people I could turn to, and to whom what I did actually mattered. I will never be able to repay this debt to them, but can be there for others in similar situations, hopefully.

_/|\_
I know very well, you are a very kind person dan. If not for people who took the time to comfort me, and give me advice, I'd have been much worse off, and I appreciate all the compassion I've received from people on this forum to no end.. a lot of you have gone above and beyond, and it truly makes me feel blessed. :heart:

Sometimes I visit mental illness websites, forums etc, and try to help people suffering from depression.

Often (pretty much always...) it does no good, because depression is a very persistent condition, and it's hard for them to "snap" out of it. Although, I have made a few people feel better. It's a very good way to help others, and there's a number of these forums out there. I usually try to recommend mindfulness to them, even just mc-mindfulness is very helpful for mental illness, so it's never a bad thing to recommend to someone suffering from depression.

I'm not specifically saying you should do this, but for anyone who would like to help those suffering from depression, and suicidal thoughts you may find it also makes you feel better. Sometimes when I get very depressed I also do this, something about helping others, and seeing how many people out there are suffering will snap you out of your depression, it's like.. there's so much suffering out there so why am I dwelling on such nonsense. :rolling:

Anyway, Let's all pray for those suffering from depression, and suicidal thoughts. :anjali:
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by DNS » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:35 pm

anjali wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:54 am
In addition to the two high-profile suicides mentioned, there was this just yesterday: Suicide rates [in US] are up 30 percent since 1999, CDC says. From the article:
Nevada is the only state that saw a decrease in that time period. But I don't think that necessarily says that we're doing something right here in Nevada; more likely, the rate was already too high, prior to 1999, so it was bound to go down some.

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by DNS » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:36 pm


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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Virgo » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:36 pm

DNS wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:35 pm

Nevada is the only state that saw a decrease in that time period. But I don't think that necessarily says that we're doing something right here in Nevada; more likely, the rate was already too high, prior to 1999, so it was bound to go down some.
Well, thankfully it has gone down some.

Kevin...
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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by KathyLauren » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:33 am

I never heard of Anthony Bourdain while he was alive. Still, any suicide is a tragedy.

I know too many people who have been out on that ledge, believing that the only way to end their pain is to end their life. Too often, I have sent panicked messages: "Does anyone know how to contact...?" I haven't lost anyone that I know of, but maybe some people I wondered "Whatever happened to...?", that's what happened to them. Suicide touches many people in my circles.

I would like to think that I would never go that route. My faith in the Dharma, for one thing, keeps me from thinking along those lines. And yet, examining my life some time ago, I could see that the road I was on led in that direction. I turned off that road, but how many are unable to make that turn?

So, I send healing thoughts to all who are affected by suicide, including especially those contemplating it, as well as family and friends. May they be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.

Om mani padme hum.
Kathy

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:15 am

Mental hospitals 'treat patients like prisoners'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 71807.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... de-me-sick

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/allen-fr ... 34135.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-27/a ... th/9286208

Sorry, Incoming Rant.


Just a few articles that outline the failure that is the mental health system in the USA, and elsewhere. TBH most people don't realize just how bad "Mental Hospitals" are, they are typically nothing more than prisons meant to keep the mentally ill away from the general public, and patient abuse in them is rampant. Just something I wanted to bring up associated with the topic of suicide, as people tend to think there is actually adequate help out there for the mentally ill, and the suicidal in particular. With suicidal people, mental hospitals are the first line of 'defense' in a manner of speaking. So it's a fairly appropriate topic.

These places operate exactly like private prisons because they are generally owned and operated by the same people, the same companies own them, provide the construction, furnishings, and even the foods. State Operated mental hospitals are even worse, they are basically temporary holding cells for psychotic prisoners, they are mostly filled with mentally ill criminals of some type or another, mixed together with severely mentally ill people who are there for things like acute psychosis, suicide attempts/suicidality in general, etc.

Which makes for a bad combination, in the one I was in even looking at people the wrong way could cause a fight, most fights were stopped 'fairly' quickly, but not quickly enough to prevent someone from getting hurt. Each type of incident has a 'code', "Code Purple" was for violence/fights, and the entire time I was there, it was called over the loudspeakers NON-STOP, day and night.. you would be regularly woken up by these calls, they go out over a loud-speaker clearly audible everywhere in the facility. You will get woken up at minimum 5 times a night by these, during the day you can't even keep count.

Worse, The acutely psychotic, or patients who annoy the staff are regularly sedated with massive doses of antipsychotics, and benzodiazepines. Basically, the more vulnerable, and sick you are.. the higher the chance you will be subject to this sort of mistreatment. Especially if you are too sick to voice any kind of complaint. The nurses simply want to do their job, get paid, and go home. (A majority anyway, especially the veterans.) Newbies tend to be more compassionate.

The worse thing I saw while in the state-run facility was their method of 'restraint'. They would bring out this GIANT METAL CHAIR, it literally looks like a medieval torture device. People who misbehave, or sometimes people who just piss off the staff, are forcibly locked into this chair with restraining harnesses (you literally can't move a muscle.) you are very tightly restrained, it's way-way-excessive, in addition, once you are restrained, even though you can NOT move, you are forcibly injected with a very high dose of antipsychotics, and benzodiazepines. Sometimes they left patients in this state for more than half a day. A girl whom I got very close to their, was subjected to this treatment at least 40+ times during my 15-day stay. Why? She was very aggressive (Verbally, not physically.), and every single nurse their hated her guts. Hey, she treated me well and was kind to all the patients. Anway, it was disgusting to watch, and still pisses me off to think about it. Once she got out of the chair, she would typically be so out of it, she couldn't even walk, would fall asleep in random places, fall over, and drool on herself. Fun times.

The entire experience is very undignifying at best, you are locked into a ward with about 20-40 other patients depending, all exits are locked, there is one 'room' to the outside which is bared in with prison bars. You can not go outside, and on the occasions, they take you outside into a bared in the area, while being escorted by guards, and nurses. You were only allowed outside for around 15 minutes per day or so.

Trust me, being there is so depressing it's not even funny, in fact, it's depressing, and terrifying, because once you are there.. you belong to the state, and the only way out is for the magistrate(A Judge who works in the mental hospital) to release you, typically via the approval of a psychiatrist. Oh, btw.. never piss off your psychiatrist. But hey, mentally ill people aren't always the most friendly, and you know, psychiatrists are human, filled with all the delusion, ignorance, and arrogance of humans, and they tend to get worn down, apathetic, and even malicious over long periods of working in these places, especially since most of these people are insanely overworked, and they regularly take their angst out on patients.

The nursing staff are typically worse, piss one off and they will make your life HELL. With as little as a simple phone call they can have 'security guards' (Ex-cops, prison guards, and military, etc; whom where most likely fired for being incompetent at their jobs.) rush in, and restrain you(usually with excessive force), put you in the huge metal chair, and sedate you with no real recourse, even if once they get there you are calm, cooperative, etc. Once they are called in, you're going in the chair.

Oh not to mention, the rooms were so frak cold that even with 5 blankets, I couldn't sleep and literally shook the entire time I stayed there. I wore about 5 pairs of sweat-pants, 3-5 pairs of socks, a t-shirt, and 3-4 sweatshirts in combination with the blankets, and still shook from the cold, no matter who I complained to, they wouldn't turn up the heat. Cunts.

Not a single friend or person I met there felt they were helped by this 'hospital', most of what we spent our days hoping for was for someone's visitors to sneak in some cigarettes, some patients are pretty gifted at singing, and that always passes the terrible time, or you could attempt to cuddle with a friendly in-mate(lol), You can't touch other 'patients', errr?... prisoners? Sorry, I don't remember anymore which we were. Yes, that also gets you the chair. :rolling:

Some were appreciative to be there, but only because the alternative for them was real jail. Which is marginally worse. I suppose. While in the mental hospital, if you are serving a jail sentence, you get time served, btw. Wonder why?

In the past I have been in 'private' mental hospitals, some of them were actually O-K, but they still had many of the same issues, and if you can ignore blatant mistreatment of patients (over-medication basically.), and the fact that the mentally ill are treated like prisoners, instead of as sick people in need of help, then yeah some can be ok.

To be totally honest I do not see why people with mental health issues should be treated in such a manner when there is no difference between mental illness, and physical illness... yet the treatment of these conditions is so appallingly unequal that it's disgusting. Some may believe 'were doing the best we can', I call utter BULLSHIT.

Why do the mentally ill need to be locked in cages? Treated as prisoners, and why does society fear them so much? Can anyone explain it? Would this treatment be acceptable for someone suffering from a physical condition? Even something as simple as the over-medication of someone to make the doctors/nurses lives easier..?

Here is a documentary filmed in a mental hospital, if you want to see what it's like.

Bellevue: Inside Out | Psychiatric Hospital Documentary

The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:49 am

PS. Here is how the rich get mental health support:

https://www.recovery.org/topics/luxury- ... y-centers/
2 Acres of Secluded Property
Spacious Rooms
Contemplative Spaces
Gourmet kitchen serving 5-star cuisine
!! Well holy shit. 5 Star Dining, us peasants could only dream. Oh, and the doors aren't locked...

Another Documentary, which shows some of the darker types of places:



Full Video here:

http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2015/i ... als/video/
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:51 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:05 pm
Much love for anyone who has been affected by suicide or suicidal thoughts. Kirt, QQ, Jesse, Bourdain's family and fans, of course.

You are always always welcome to contact, when needed. Of course, I am not qualified and Lifeline is a better place to call. Sometimes though some familiarity can be good. I've found it invaluable at difficult times to know that there were people I could turn to, and to whom what I did actually mattered. I will never be able to repay this debt to them, but can be there for others in similar situations, hopefully.

_/|\_
Thank you, Dan.

I just want to say, I'm not thinking about hurting myself, but I am demoralized. To see friends and fellows go at their own hands, it does remind me of existentially despairing thoughts that I have ruminated upon over the years, which also led me to certain appreciation of the Buddha's story.

In the Buddha's enlightenment story, there is the episode where he has an existential freak out after seeing the corpse. "HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE JUST WALK AROUND LIKE NOTHING IS WRONG?!!!! IT IS ALL HORRIBLY HORRIBLY WRONG!!! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!" Buddha couldn't go back to his life as a prince after that. Everything was reduced to mere vanities and distractions. When he saw the sravaka who had given up all to seek something more profound, he knew that was the path he wanted to take - he shaved his head, put aside his fancygarments and gold jewelry, and put on the simple clothes of his paige.

If Sid was alive now, we could imagine him as some 1%er kid going into a deep emo phase, wearing black and dying his hair; maybe hitting the road and becoming a zen gutter punk; His parents assuring him and themselves, "It's just a phase." "No, Dad, f--k your money. Death is still going to get you."

The Buddha almost did kill himself in the process of seeking to solve the problem of death... there are the iconic images of the gaunt Buddha, sunken eyes peering from a skull, on a horribly emaciated body. Before that, he did all kinds of crazy things - plucking all the hair on his body out; closing all orifices until he was breathing through his ear holes, and then closing those, too. He was the Lebron James of self-mortification, and his companions held him in awe for the degree to which he could bring himself to the edge of death.

My point in bringing this up is that Buddhism, at its inception, was an obsession with the meaninglessness and futility of the world, which tends to bring one, sooner or later, to the face of death. Seems to me, its how that confrontation is handled that distinguishes the yogi from the suicide. Most people spend their lives avoiding questions about death and life, content with the foibles of samsara. They confront death only when it unavoidably presents itself. Some people see the faults of samsara, but don't get much beyond the diagnosis of the first and maybe second noble truth. Without knowledge of the third and fourth noble truths, there are basically two options - actively opt out (suicide), bravely carry on in the face of meaninglessness, contented with the consolation of humanism. Of course there are also various religious myths that fashion some sort of greater meaning in samsara, but from the Buddhist perspective, we understand these as yet more samsaric fuel.

What I have found in my practice is that Buddhism does not offer a nice story to relieve us of the philosophical and existential implications of the first noble truth. And that is really important to me - I fundamentally dislike feel good bull shit. It instead deconstructs that truth to show us what it really is and thereby, ideally, neutralizing its implications.

This is why I feel like I can say as a general matter, I get it when an intelligent and vibrant person opts to end it. Its also why I don't surrender there, but struggle on with the second, third and fourth noble truths.

That was a bit of cathartic mind dump. Pardon my use of this forum as a means to work out my recent thoughts. I've considered other contexts, but I think only dharma friends could relate to what I'm thinking on this.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:59 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:51 pm
My point in bringing this up is that Buddhism, at its inception, was an obsession with the meaninglessness and futility of the world, which tends to bring one, sooner or later, to the face of death. Seems to me, its how that confrontation is handled that distinguishes the yogi from the suicide. Most people spend their lives avoiding questions about death and life, content with the foibles of samsara. They confront death only when it unavoidably presents itself. Some people see the faults of samsara, but don't get much beyond the diagnosis of the first and maybe second noble truth. Without knowledge of the third and fourth noble truths, there are basically two options - actively opt out (suicide), bravely carry on in the face of meaninglessness, contented with the consolation of humanism. Of course there are also various religious myths that fashion some sort of greater meaning in samsara, but from the Buddhist perspective, we understand these as yet more samsaric fuel.

very good post. The last two noble truths, and especially the last are extraordinarily hard to keep a stable realization of. At least in my experience.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Queequeg
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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:28 pm

Jesse wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:59 pm
The last two noble truths, and especially the last are extraordinarily hard to keep a stable realization of. At least in my experience.
True. My motto when I lose focus is to resort to faith and say, "Just do it." Go through the rituals, recite the liturgy, even when I'm not feeling it, even when I have a haze between where my mind is racing around and the insights obtained at some more lucid time when I formed the resolution to undertake the practice and the practice authentically made sense. I've been through enough of these cycles to know that I will come back around to an authentic appreciation of the practice, and in the mean time, I stay tethered to the Triple Jewel.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:10 pm

In my previous mind-dump post, in the process of writing I had a comment about the ideas informing the confrontation with death and how those would tend to determine one's thoughts, words and actions in response. For whatever reason, I guess I edited that out.

In any event, if one assumes a materialist view, then life is just a chemical reaction, and so snuffing a life is little different from snuffing a candle. Similarly, if one assumes the cyclic pattern of samsara, then death is not the end of anything but merely a transition point. One can infer how decisions might be affected depending on view.

I was reading an opinion piece in the NYTimes about the rising suicide rate and how we do not treat it as a health threat the way we treat HIV or Zika. If it was treated as a health issue, then we might make more effort to research prevention efforts. The author goes on to discuss the results of studies on various intervention techniques. I thought this resonated with what I wrote above -
One small promising study of suicidal soldiers found that 40 percent of those who received traditional treatments went on to attempt suicide again. But only 14 percent of those who received brief cognitive behavioral therapy — a treatment designed to reduce beliefs and assumptions that increase vulnerability to suicidal thinking and behavior, like hopelessness, guilt and shame — made a subsequent suicide attempt.
Here is a study that shows a change of view really does reduce the likelihood of a suicide attempt - the Buddhist truism that a change of mind can change one's world - finds support with regard to suicide.

https://nyti.ms/2HBpOw5
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: So, Anthony Bourdain...

Post by Jesse » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:50 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:10 pm
In my previous mind-dump post, in the process of writing I had a comment about the ideas informing the confrontation with death and how those would tend to determine one's thoughts, words and actions in response. For whatever reason, I guess I edited that out.

In any event, if one assumes a materialist view, then life is just a chemical reaction, and so snuffing a life is little different from snuffing a candle. Similarly, if one assumes the cyclic pattern of samsara, then death is not the end of anything but merely a transition point. One can infer how decisions might be affected depending on view.

I was reading an opinion piece in the NYTimes about the rising suicide rate and how we do not treat it as a health threat the way we treat HIV or Zika. If it was treated as a health issue, then we might make more effort to research prevention efforts. The author goes on to discuss the results of studies on various intervention techniques. I thought this resonated with what I wrote above -
One small promising study of suicidal soldiers found that 40 percent of those who received traditional treatments went on to attempt suicide again. But only 14 percent of those who received brief cognitive behavioral therapy — a treatment designed to reduce beliefs and assumptions that increase vulnerability to suicidal thinking and behavior, like hopelessness, guilt and shame — made a subsequent suicide attempt.
Here is a study that shows a change of view really does reduce the likelihood of a suicide attempt - the Buddhist truism that a change of mind can change one's world - finds support with regard to suicide.

https://nyti.ms/2HBpOw5
There have been a lot of strange studies lately with promising results. One has been mentioned in this thread already, Therapy which incorporates the use of certain drugs like magic mushrooms, ketamine, etc. Either in larger doses while under the guidance, and care of physicians, and therapists. (This is typical for end of life therapy in people who have cancer. And it has been remarkably successful. At least in these small-scale studies. I'm afraid it's not in wide use yet.)

The other idea being studied and used, is using these chemicals in minute dosages(micro-dosing), which seem to cause anti-depressant, and anti-anxiety effects without causing any significant change in the persons state of consciousness. (no high, or tripping.) It obviously causes a change, but one with results that help the patient.

Another odd one I read about is sleep deprivation. They found that people who stayed awake for 2-3 days without sleep, had a significant decrease in depression.

Here's a review of the study...
http://www.psychiatrist.com/JCP/article ... 11332.aspx

There are also some studies exploring the properties of opioids in treating depression, specifically opioids which do not get you high, simply bind to the opioid receptor sites, and especially ones which have very very high affinities for the opioid receptors. (They essentially block any other opioid from binding to the receptors, because of their affinity, they use all of them up, preventing anything else from binding to them.)

These drugs are used to block the effects of opioids in addicts typically, and they have found that they have significant antidepressive properties. So they are looking to create a new drug based on this idea, to treat depression. It's significantly different than a normal SSRI, SNDRIs, or SSNRI, etc.. I hope it works out.

https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/ ... .2018.1b17
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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