Competitive meditators...

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Queequeg
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Competitive meditators...

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:34 am

I don't have a subscription, but this blurb is all I needed to read to conclude, "douche bag."
Alan Stein Jr., is on his 324th straight day meditating—a streak he is tending with the mindfulness of a monk.

The 42-year-old performance coach from Gaithersburg, Md., has kept his record using the Headspace app, despite early-morning flights and travel across time zones. On a recent work trip to Atlanta, he remembered to meditate only just after the clock struck midnight. Worried he’d blown his record, he closed his eyes and quickly tried to meditate on the hotel bed for 10 minutes.
:rolling: I kid. I kid.

Sigh. May all beings be happy...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/stressed-t ... 1528814126
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

shaunc
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by shaunc » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:51 am

Competitive meditating? Sort of defeats the purpose don't you think. I wish him luck anyway.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:09 am

One of Alan's tweets on the topic:




Anyway, he's got nothing on Sri Dhananjai Bikram.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

smcj
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by smcj » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:20 am

Always a favorite:

https://youtu.be/h5XnFAcjAJY
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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ratna
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by ratna » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:08 am

Reminds me of this: Monk Gloats Over Yoga Championship.

Edit: damn, Dzogchungpa beat me to it.

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Anders
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Anders » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 am

A bit of friendly competitiveness can lead to great things
On one occasion the Blessed One was wandering on a tour among the Kosalans with a large community of monks. As he was going along a road, he saw a large sala forest in a certain place. Going down from the road, he went to the sala forest. On reaching it, he plunged into it and at a certain spot, broke into a smile. Then the thought occurred to Ven. Ananda, "What is the cause, what is the reason, for the Blessed One's breaking into a smile? It's not without purpose that Tathagata's break into smile." So he said to the Blessed One, "What is the cause, what is the reason, for the Blessed One's breaking into a smile? It's not without purpose that Tathagata's break into smile."

"In this spot, Ananda, there was once a great city: powerful, prosperous, populous, crowded with people. And on that city, Kassapa the Blessed One, worthy & fully self-awakened, dwelled dependent. Now, Kassapa the Blessed One, worthy & fully self-awakened, had a lay follower named Gavesin who didn't practice in full in terms of his virtue. But because of Gavesin, there were 500 people who had been inspired to declare themselves lay followers, and yet who also didn't practice in full in terms of their virtue.

"Then the thought occurred to Gavesin the lay follower: 'I am the benefactor of these 500 lay followers, their leader, the one who has inspired them. But I don't practice in full in terms of my virtue, just as they don't practice in full in terms of their virtue. In that we're exactly even; there's nothing extra [for me]. How about something extra!' So he went to the 500 lay followers and on arrival said to them, 'From today onward I want you to know me as someone who practices in full in terms of my virtue.'

"Then the thought occurred to the 500 lay followers: 'Master Gavesin is our benefactor, our leader, the one who has inspired us. He will now practice in full in terms of his virtue. So why shouldn't we?' So they went to Gavesin the lay follower and on arrival said to him, 'From today onward we want Master Gavesin to know the 500 lay followers as people who practice in full in terms of their virtue.'

"Then the thought occurred to Gavesin the lay follower: 'I am the benefactor of these 500 lay followers, their leader, the one who has inspired them. I practice in full in terms of my virtue, just as they practice in full in terms of their virtue. In that we're exactly even; there's nothing extra [for me]. How about something extra!' So he went to the 500 lay followers and on arrival said to them, 'From today onward I want you to know me as someone who practices the chaste life, the life apart, abstaining from intercourse, the act of villagers.'

"Then the thought occurred to the 500 lay followers: 'Master Gavesin is our benefactor, our leader, the one who has inspired us. He will now practice the chaste life, the life apart, abstaining from intercourse, the act of villagers. So why shouldn't we?' So they went to Gavesin the lay follower and on arrival said to him, 'From today onward we want Master Gavesin to know the 500 lay followers as people who practice the chaste life, the life apart, abstaining from intercourse, the act of villagers.'

"Then the thought occurred to Gavesin the lay follower: 'I am the benefactor of these 500 lay followers, their leader, the one who has inspired them. I practice in full in terms of my virtue, just as they practice in full in terms of their virtue. I practice the chaste life, the life apart, abstaining from intercourse, the act of villagers, just as they practice the chaste life, the life apart, abstaining from intercourse, the act of villagers. In that we're exactly even; there's nothing extra [for me]. How about something extra!' So he went to the 500 lay followers and on arrival said to them, 'From today onward I want you to know me as someone who eats only one meal a day, refraining in the night, abstaining from a meal at the wrong time.'

"Then the thought occurred to the 500 lay followers: 'Master Gavesin is our benefactor, our leader, the one who has inspired us. He will now eat only one meal a day, refraining in the night, abstaining from a meal at the wrong time. So why shouldn't we?' So they went to Gavesin the lay follower and on arrival said to him, 'From today onward we want Master Gavesin to know the 500 lay followers as people who eat only one meal a day, refraining in the night, abstaining from a meal at the wrong time.'

"Then the thought occurred to Gavesin the lay follower: 'I am the benefactor of these 500 lay followers, their leader, the one who has inspired them. I practice in full in terms of my virtue, just as they practice in full in terms of their virtue. I practice the chaste life, the life apart, abstaining from intercourse, the act of villagers, just as they practice the chaste life, the life apart, abstaining from intercourse, the act of villagers. I eat only one meal a day, refraining in the night, abstaining from a meal at the wrong time, just as they eat only one meal a day, refraining in the night, abstaining from a meal at the wrong time. In that we're exactly even; there's nothing extra [for me]. How about something extra!'

"So he went to Kassapa the Blessed One, worthy & fully self-awakened, and on arrival said to him, 'Lord, may I receive the Going Forth in the Blessed One's presence. May I receive the Full Acceptance.' So he received the Going Forth in the presence of Kassapa the Blessed One, worthy & fully self-awakened; he received the Full Acceptance. And not long after his Acceptance — dwelling alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, & resolute — he in no long time reached & remained in the supreme goal of the chaste life, for which clansmen rightly go forth from home into homelessness, knowing & realizing it for himself in the here & now. He knew: 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for the sake of this world.' And thus Gavesin the monk became another one of the arahants.

"Then the thought occurred to the 500 lay followers: 'Master Gavesin is our benefactor, our leader, the one who has inspired us. Having shaven off his hair & beard, having put on the ochre robe, he has gone forth from the home life into homelessness. So why shouldn't we?'

"So they went to Kassapa the Blessed One, worthy & fully self-awakened, and on arrival said to him, 'Lord, may we receive the Going Forth in the Blessed One's presence. May we receive the Full Acceptance.' So they received the Going Forth in the presence of Kassapa the Blessed One, worthy & fully self-awakened; they received the Full Acceptance.

"Then the thought occurred to Gavesin the monk: 'I obtain at will — without difficulty, without hardship — this unexcelled bliss of release. O, that these 500 monks may obtain at will — without difficulty, without hardship — this unexcelled bliss of release!' Then those 500 monks — dwelling alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, & resolute — in no long time reached & remained in the supreme goal of the chaste life, for which clansmen rightly go forth from home into homelessness, knowing & realizing it for themselves in the here & now. They knew: 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for the sake of this world.' And thus did those 500 monks — headed by Gavesin, striving at what is more & more excellent, more & more refined — realize unexcelled release.

"So, Ananda, you should train yourselves: 'Striving at what is more & more excellent, more & more refined, we will realize unexcelled release.' That's how you should train yourselves."
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:03 pm

ratna wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:08 am
Reminds me of this: Monk Gloats Over Yoga Championship.

Edit: damn, Dzogchungpa beat me to it.

Relax, it's not a competition.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Grigoris
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:50 pm

Reminds me of this thread over at our sister site...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by DNS » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:16 am

Anders wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 am
A bit of friendly competitiveness can lead to great things
On one occasion the Blessed One was . . .
Good find, in case anyone is interested the reference is Anguttara Nikaya 5.180
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

The problem with competitiveness over meditation or attainments in online forums is that often people chime in (and often correctly) that the person is delusional, grandiose, etc. And then the poster will get defensive and say it's the others who don't understand proper meditation and attainments, enlightenment experiences, glimpses, kensho, etc. and results in flame wars. A meditator could have genuine attainments, but if those responding have never had any or have not developed mudita, their responses could be even more delusional than the claimant. Since we can't know for sure which one is more delusional, it's best to avoid public claims, except perhaps for some very subtle ones to show that progress can be made, for the purpose of encouraging others, but just for that, imo.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:48 am

All modesty aside, I am almost certainly one of the least competitive meditators in the world.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Ayu
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Ayu » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:19 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:48 am
All modesty aside, I am almost certainly one of the least competitive meditators in the world.
Competition about who is the least I find common amongst Buddhists. It's equally difficult like being the best, because only one can be the last.

(Does my English worsen?)
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:49 pm

Ayu wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:19 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:48 am
All modesty aside, I am almost certainly one of the least competitive meditators in the world.
Competition about who is the least I find common amongst Buddhists. It's equally difficult like being the best, because only one can be the last.

(Does my English worsen?)


Well, I did say "one of the least". It's possible there are some slightly less competitive meditators out there. Anyway, as a certain enlightened being once said:
The least among all of you is the greatest.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Anders
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Anders » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:49 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:48 am
All modesty aside, I am almost certainly one of the least competitive meditators in the world.
BS! I am less competitive than you and I have the total lack of any attainment to back it up.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

muni
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by muni » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:54 am

Sigh. May all beings be happy...
Fully agree!
Suffering guaranteed if competition is experienced, but good joke!
I meditate extremely well. Nobody meditates better than I do. I have great relationships with some gurus, but I am actually the most spiritual person around. I guarantee it.
*May all be free*
(Does my English worsen?)
No dear, it is almost as good as mine. I guarantee it.

:namaste:
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am

I've committed to sit every day in 2018. I'm not in a competition, but one thing that has definitely come into play is that every day I get a reminder from Insight Timer app 'you've completed 165 days straight' (or whatever the count is of today's date). So - if I miss a day, then it's going to take nearly six months to reach the same milestone! OK, a couple of times, it's been fairly peremptory, 15 rushed minutes. But anyway, keeping on for a straight flush.

But I'm also mindful of the great koan 'the unattainable is attained by non-attainment' [Gong sound]. :smile:
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Grigoris
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:42 am

Anders wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:49 am
BS! I am less competitive than you and I have the total lack of any attainment to back it up.
Lack of attainment, ha! Is that all? That is piss-weak evidence of your lack of competitiveness. I am so un-competitive I have already have a chair booked in Avichi Hell with my name-card on it.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Ayu
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Ayu » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:34 am

Anders wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:49 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:48 am
All modesty aside, I am almost certainly one of the least competitive meditators in the world.
BS! I am less competitive than you and I have the total lack of any attainment to back it up.
Braggarts! :tongue:
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Ayu
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Ayu » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:36 am

muni wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:54 am
(Does my English worsen?)
No dear, it is almost as good as mine. I guarantee it.
:lol:
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Wayfarer
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:57 am

I can’t help be reminded of a joke I heard some time back. A very learned and respected rebbe was on his death bed, and people came from far and wide to pay their respects. Towards the end, some very learned scholars were among those who visited, and they all spoke highly of the teacher’s great guidance and wisdom.

But when they all left, the rebbe’s wife noticed that he looked downcast. ‘What’s the matter, dear?’, she said. ‘Everyone was so kind to you, you can see what a great influence your wise teaching had on so many people’, she said.

‘But my humility’, came the reply. ‘Nobody mentioned my humility’. :tongue:
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Ayu
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Re: Competitive meditators...

Post by Ayu » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:44 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am
I've committed to sit every day in 2018. I'm not in a competition, but one thing that has definitely come into play is that every day I get a reminder from Insight Timer app 'you've completed 165 days straight' (or whatever the count is of today's date). So - if I miss a day, then it's going to take nearly six months to reach the same milestone! OK, a couple of times, it's been fairly peremptory, 15 rushed minutes. But anyway, keeping on for a straight flush.

But I'm also mindful of the great koan 'the unattainable is attained by non-attainment' [Gong sound]. :smile:
Fun aside. For me the imagination of being inspired by a modern alarmclock is strange (foreign). I couldn't use that, I think, but I don't need it either. For me inspiration is an internal affair and the discussions sometimes with my poor mood to start are part of the process.
But many people seem to love their timer and what it is telling them. Out of this kind of joy they might be willing to share their results. So: Why not?
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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