Humanity's decline

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Queequeg
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Humanity's decline

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:46 pm

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06- ... 1970s.html

Average IQ has apparently been dropping since the 70s. They had been on the rise before.

1. The geezers' observations are accurate - each generation since the 70s IS stupider. Mantrik, eat your heart out!

2. Hunter Thompson observed, perhaps rightly:
It seems like a lifetime, or at least a Main Era — the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run... but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant...

There was madness in any direction, at any hour. You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning...

And that, I think, was the handle — that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply PREVAIL. There was no point in fighting — on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave...

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high water mark — that place where the wave finally broke, and rolled back.
3. It's not comedy... It's informed prediction...


4. The wise ones saw the causes and conditions and foresaw the coming decline... Now we intone, "Namo Maityreya, come sooner!" Maitreya, seated in equipose bides the time awaiting the proper circumstances.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Minobu
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Minobu » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:04 pm

There was this very wise guy i knew when i was around 20...he taught me so much about buddhism , yoga, meditation ,life, .....

So there was this on going discussion about this very thing ...the rise and fall of human development , genius, the arts, science, ......

He pointed out that every now and then there is a jolt worldwide and culture and all things just mentioned burst forth with advancement.

Like the Renascence era...

He pointed out that the late 50's and early 60's such a jolt took place and everything sort of changed...paradigms shifted ...humanities developed ...art most notably influenced everything....

always look to the art he would say....

you see it in the art....art stagnates without the jolt....

He likened this to mass kundalini energies released in everyone at the same time...

and then it stops and we all deal with the new....

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:18 pm

Minobu wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:04 pm
He pointed out that the late 50's and early 60's such a jolt took place and everything sort of changed...

Yes, it was called 'LSD'.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Minobu
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Minobu » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:40 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:18 pm
Minobu wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:04 pm
He pointed out that the late 50's and early 60's such a jolt took place and everything sort of changed...

Yes, it was called 'LSD'.
Well indeed psychedelics were started to be seen as something to explore...as it is today...it took decades to come to the conclusion many see them as today...
but LSd was not around in the renaissance era.. another time when a jolt of culture , science , art and theology took to the sky.

so to put it all down to LSD...well....derails the point he tried to show me spiritually...He was a German well into his 40's and it was around 1975 when i met him.

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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Norwegian » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:52 pm

A key problem today is that being ignorant and celebrating ignorance has been made acceptable and also fun as well as marketable...

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:07 pm

Minobu wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:40 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:18 pm
Minobu wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:04 pm
He pointed out that the late 50's and early 60's such a jolt took place and everything sort of changed...

Yes, it was called 'LSD'.
Well indeed psychedelics were started to be seen as something to explore...as it is today...it took decades to come to the conclusion many see them as today...
but LSd was not around in the renaissance era.. another time when a jolt of culture , science , art and theology took to the sky.

so to put it all down to LSD...well....derails the point he tried to show me spiritually...He was a German well into his 40's and it was around 1975 when i met him.

Well, I wasn't attempting to derail anything. I actually think LSD is spiritually significant, but we better not go there. Think of the children!
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Mantrik
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Mantrik » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:09 pm

So many different ways to measure IQ. I can only really comment on the UK.

Back in the 1970's tests included questions about the Prime Minister etc rather than reasoning tests.
There used to be defined levels of IQ which included 'moron' and 'cretin'. I am always surpised that the lowest, 'idiot' is now seen as the mildest insult. There were non-verbal tests which had no culture bias, but of course favoured kids good with shapes and numbers rather than words.

I think attainment has dropped in the UK, for sure, but I am not convinced that people are less intelligent. Those with a modern degree would probably have failed O level exams for 16 year olds in the 1960's, or have been asked to leave school at 15. When I was helping recruit Uni students in the 1990's I asked many recruiters from Universites all over the world how they regarded our 'A Level' exams for 18 year olds. By that decade were already seen as a worthless measure and the International 'Bac' was the most desirable.......even in the eyes of British Universities.

Since the iterative dumbing-down of the education system and the collapse of discipline in most schools, kids' attainment has reflected the lower and lower expectations of their parents and teachers..but this was disguised by making qualifications easier and easier until we reached the point where only Grade A in school exams and 1st Class Hons at degree level in now worth any regard at all.

My own little experiment was to grab a group of A level Business Studies students and to see what could be done. They were mostly below average attainment, which is why they were placed in that group and not in an 'academic' subject group.
I taught them at a level which stretched them (considered to be 'postgraduate' level by the usual barely literate teachers now populating our poorer state schools). Almost every kid moaned but they did stop peering at their phones, made an effort, and all attained a Grade A.

So many variables, but if you ask the 'end user', employers, I have yet to find a single one who thinks kids are brighter now than they used to be. At the other end, primary schools are finding an increasing number of kids starting school are not only unable to sit and look at a book, but aren't toilet trained and can only eat with their fingers..............much like their parents.

If the same test was applied in Norway for all those years, whilst the world around them changed, I am not at all surprised at the results.

Here in the UK it has only been disguised by making sure every exam has become progressively easier. The most obvious sign of deluded madness is to actually celebrate that 50% of kids can now get into university, rather than barely 10% back into the 1970's. Not only do they end up with a worthless dumbed down qualification, there are so many of them they have to pay a fortune for it as the country can't afford grants. Kafka must be spinnning in his grave...........laughing! ;)
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Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm

Isn't there some story about Kumarajiva being forced to reproduce by some Chinese king or whatever? Maybe we need something like that nowadays.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:40 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Isn't there some story about Kumarajiva being forced to reproduce by some Chinese king or whatever? Maybe we need something like that nowadays.
The idea of Trump ordering people to make babies... blech.
It's probably on the pee tape, though.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

Norwegian
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Norwegian » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:59 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:40 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Isn't there some story about Kumarajiva being forced to reproduce by some Chinese king or whatever? Maybe we need something like that nowadays.
The idea of Trump ordering people to make babies... blech.
It's probably on the pee tape, though.
That's what some LDP politician whose name escapes me said in Japan too. Basically said women should do two things: 1) Give birth to more kids, and 2) Stay in the kitchen and be a good wife. It was not exactly well-received as far as messages goes.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:40 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Isn't there some story about Kumarajiva being forced to reproduce by some Chinese king or whatever? Maybe we need something like that nowadays.
The idea of Trump ordering people to make babies... blech.
It's probably on the pee tape, though.

I can just imagine the headline: TRUMP: "F*CK!"
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Wayfarer
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:01 am

Norwegian wrote:A key problem today is that being ignorant and celebrating ignorance has been made acceptable and also fun as well as marketable...
I often have the mischievous thought that the whole purpose of modern liberal economics is ‘making the world a safe space for the ignorant’. (Although that is immediately followed by the depressing realization that i’m probably one of them.)
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Jesse » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:04 pm

While the education system, at least in the USA is in pretty bad shape, if not wholly irrelevant at this point, there have been significant strides towards making education accessible, and available to anyone who desires it.

You could almost wholly educate yourself online these days, every single topic is covered in depth from K, to advanced college courses.

I mean if you look at our technical advancements, you can't really say we have 'dumbed' down any. it's just that population has shot way up with many many varying results.

People are not on average as dumb as many people assume, most of the time when people speak of 'intelligence', what they are referring to is Education / Knowledge.

It's kind of ironic that the video makes both references to IQ tests and the popular example of "Measuring two different animals by the ability to climb a tree", as the example goes.. if you graded both a monkey, and an elephant by that same standard, it's pretty easy to conclude the monkey is more intelligent.

I'm pretty sure someone once said, all IQ tests measure is how good people are at taking IQ tests.

Now, if everyone had time to fully dedicate themselves to their education, (and chose to), our society would seem a much more 'intelligent' place. but when society favors a lack of free time, in favor of Capitalism, and the dedication of our entire population to economic growth, then those in 'charge', or hell even 'we' are a whole, tend to disfavor education in favor of simple marketable skills. Who is going to invest years, and years into an education, then go on to make your hamburgers at Mc Donalds for 5-7$ an hour?

Even if they desired an education for the sake of the knowledge it'self, the fact of hunger, societal expectation, and a host of other influences would likely make people lean towards simply doing what is expected of them, and going with the flow.. primarily working. Hell sometimes 2-3 Jobs at the same time, just to feed, cloth, and house themselves, and their family.

Fact is, A REAL education and knowledge are commodities in today's world, and as pertains to survival, not of significant value.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Queequeg
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Re: Humanity's decline

Post by Queequeg » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:25 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:01 am
Norwegian wrote:A key problem today is that being ignorant and celebrating ignorance has been made acceptable and also fun as well as marketable...
I often have the mischievous thought that the whole purpose of modern liberal economics is ‘making the world a safe space for the ignorant’. (Although that is immediately followed by the depressing realization that i’m probably one of them.)
The best part of this news is the Dunning-Kreuger effect - even if it applies to us, we won't know! So we can be self-satisfied and point the finger at all those other slobs without any tangible repercussions!
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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