Meditate and grow your ego

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Queequeg
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Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm

Meditation and yoga seem in some cases to inflate the ego. Like a cyst that needs to reach a certain size to be lanced maybe there's art to the practice?

What say you, Dharmawheelers?

https://qz.com/1307380/yoga-and-meditat ... searchers/
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Malcolm
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Malcolm » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:36 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm
Meditation and yoga seem in some cases to inflate the ego. Like a cyst that needs to reach a certain size to be lanced maybe there's art to the practice?

What say you, Dharmawheelers?

https://qz.com/1307380/yoga-and-meditat ... searchers/
The article is predicated on this misnomer:
"[S]piritual Buddhist practices like yoga and meditation may not do what proponents typically say they do, according to the study authors."
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Snowbear
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Snowbear » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:11 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm
Meditation and yoga seem in some cases to inflate the ego. Like a cyst that needs to reach a certain size to be lanced maybe there's art to the practice?

What say you, Dharmawheelers?

https://qz.com/1307380/yoga-and-meditat ... searchers/
A well-made point.

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Malcolm
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Malcolm » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:19 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:11 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm
Meditation and yoga seem in some cases to inflate the ego. Like a cyst that needs to reach a certain size to be lanced maybe there's art to the practice?

What say you, Dharmawheelers?

https://qz.com/1307380/yoga-and-meditat ... searchers/
A well-made point.
Not at all, the author keeps discussing yoga and meditation without defining which yoga, which meditation, and vaguely addressing all of it to the doorstep of Buddhism.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Vasana
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Vasana » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:24 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:11 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm
Meditation and yoga seem in some cases to inflate the ego. Like a cyst that needs to reach a certain size to be lanced maybe there's art to the practice?

What say you, Dharmawheelers?

https://qz.com/1307380/yoga-and-meditat ... searchers/
A well-made point.
Surely context, type of meditation, culture, experience and expsoure to other teachings are key factors here. Trungpa called it spiritual materialism, nothing new.

I think these kinds of articles do more harm than good and male some very basic missasumptons about how the path of Buddhism and meditation are said to unfold.

Some people meditate to enhance their egoic image and some people meditate to realize the egolissness that benefits being.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Tiago Simões
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Tiago Simões » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:32 pm

The article and study are obviously talking about contemporary mindfullness practice, not buddhism.
But the psychological study didn’t examine whether Buddhist teachings themselves influenced this ego boost. Yoga alone may not be enough to dissolve the ego, but one psychological study does not invalidate thousands of years of Buddhist teaching and practice.
In other words "we didn't examine practicing buddhists and we have no idea what buddhism is".

I'm reminded of something DJKR said in his Hinamudra teachings. "Better to remember the four seals for a minute once every month, then to meditate hours everyday" Something like that.
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:48 pm

Well, at least I learned that "athleisure" is a thing now.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Snowbear
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Snowbear » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:52 pm

To think that one is exempt from the egoism as displayed by the people in the study is a bit egoic, is it not? :lol:

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:01 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:52 pm
To think that one is exempt from the egoism as displayed by the people in the study is a bit egoic, is it not? :lol:

All modesty aside, I am almost certainly one of the least egoic meditators in the world.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Snowbear
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Snowbear » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:20 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:01 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:52 pm
To think that one is exempt from the egoism as displayed by the people in the study is a bit egoic, is it not? :lol:

All modesty aside, I am almost certainly one of the least egoic meditators in the world.
Image

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:05 pm

The article is written seemingly by someone with little to no idea of the subject matter.

As an example, the author cannot understand how one could both have an improved relative self image, and yet have insight into the illusory nature of that relative self. In fact, Buddhist practice is supposed to lead to both.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

Snowbear
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Snowbear » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:04 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:05 pm
As an example, the author cannot understand how one could both have an improved relative self image, and yet have insight into the illusory nature of that relative self.
Isn't that a bit contradictory?
In fact, Buddhist practice is supposed to lead to both.
Who told you this?

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Wayfarer
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:56 pm

I remember a particular spiritual teacher [not Buddhist] always saying that practice or cultivation by self-discipline was like ‘pruning a bush’ which would only grow more vigorously as a consequence. The only way to realise truth was to cut it [the bush i.e. ego] at the root.

Let’s not forget the ‘yoga wars’ in the US which involved mult-million dollar lawsuits attempting to copyright Sanskrit words, among other things.

Any sadhana can be a double-edged sword. Or, as Heraclitus said, ‘the road up and the road down are the same road’.

The article does seem like junk science, though.

//ps// although in fairness to it, it does conclude 'one psychological study does not invalidate thousands of years of Buddhist teaching and practice.'//
Last edited by Wayfarer on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:22 pm

On a related note - I did notice very early in the first season of Billions, that both Bobby Axelrod and Chuck Rhoades were seen meditating with iPhone timers.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:25 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:04 pm


Isn't that a bit contradictory?

It is if you have a poor understanding of Buddhadharma, and think in terms of either "I have an ego" or "I don't have ego", a position which the Buddha argues against all over the various vehicles. It is a pretty rookie approach to Buddhism to believe that the answer must be one of these two things, and to me it indicates the writer has no real experience in studying Buddhadharma, YMMV.
In fact, Buddhist practice is supposed to lead to both.
Who told you this?
Look anywhere, Pali Sources, Mahayana sutra etc. the mundane fruits of Buddhist practice are improved prosperity, health, etc..in short, a healthier relative self. It's not complicated. Dharma isn't about obliterating ego or some such thing (there is not need to obliterate or remove what has no substance in the first place), but also about accumulating merit and wisdom, and sharing these while dwelling time, space, our relative condition as we move towards the ultimate goal of practice.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Queequeg
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:48 pm
Well, at least I learned that "athleisure" is a thing now.
They had to come up with something better than, "MILFs in yoga pants."
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:24 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:48 pm
Well, at least I learned that "athleisure" is a thing now.
They had to come up with something better than, "MILFs in yoga pants."

A tall order, no doubt.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:49 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:22 pm
On a related note - I did notice very early in the first season of Billions, that both Bobby Axelrod and Chuck Rhoades were seen meditating with iPhone timers.
Friends in Alpha Male careers who know I'm Buddhist bring up meditation when I'm around. Generally they do headspace and other app based practices. Some have been getting really into it, but they don't quite know where to go, and I think actual Buddhism in practice repels them. That said, its interesting how they try to make sense of their experiences, connecting with bits and pieces of Pop Buddhism. I'm probably the only real life practicing Buddhist in their worlds, so questions come to me. I tend to avoid talking about Dharma around non-Buddhists, and when it comes up, my first reaction is to deflect with off hand jokes and generalization. I find that some push past the brushoff, and the questions that flow can be really eye opening for me - Like, wow, by day, you're kind of Gordon Geckko, but when things settle down, your dabbling in questions of existential import.

Their practices are generally limited to samatha. They're not turning that single mind to deeper analysis. If anything, they might use the mental posture to "problem solve" in work related stuff.

I do what I can to direct their minds to the horizons they are discovering without getting heavy.

When that class of men turn on to Dharma, it will be wonderful. The dana will flow.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:59 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:49 pm
Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:22 pm
On a related note - I did notice very early in the first season of Billions, that both Bobby Axelrod and Chuck Rhoades were seen meditating with iPhone timers.
Friends in Alpha Male careers who know I'm Buddhist bring up meditation when I'm around. Generally they do headspace and other app based practices. Some have been getting really into it, but they don't quite know where to go, and I think actual Buddhism in practice repels them. That said, its interesting how they try to make sense of their experiences, connecting with bits and pieces of Pop Buddhism. I'm probably the only real life practicing Buddhist in their worlds, so questions come to me. I tend to avoid talking about Dharma around non-Buddhists, and when it comes up, my first reaction is to deflect with off hand jokes and generalization. I find that some push past the brushoff, and the questions that flow can be really eye opening for me - Like, wow, by day, you're kind of Gordon Geckko, but when things settle down, your dabbling in questions of existential import.

Their practices are generally limited to samatha. They're not turning that single mind to deeper analysis. If anything, they might use the mental posture to "problem solve" in work related stuff.

I do what I can to direct their minds to the horizons they are discovering without getting heavy.

When that class of men turn on to Dharma, it will be wonderful. The dana will flow.

Alpha dana is going to be sweet.

Speaking of "Alpha Males", try doing a search for PUA and meditation. You might find it amusing. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: Meditate and grow your ego

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:25 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:59 pm
Alpha dana is going to be sweet.
F'in Amrita, Man!
Speaking of "Alpha Males", try doing a search for PUA and meditation. You might find it amusing. :smile:
...those are the guys making a commotion over at dhammawheel...
SMH
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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