Football World Cup.

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Simon E.
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:26 am

PeterC wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:11 am
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 am

I think you need to look at your World Cup history again. Eight Nations have won the World Cup and England is among them.
Once, yes. Uruguay has won it more. (Actually Uruguay was a serious team up to the 70s - it was good to see them do well this time.)

The problem with England is their almost unlimited capacity to disappoint. They give you a sliver of hope that perhaps, this year, finally...and then they crash and burn.
They didn't disappoint me. They did far better than I had dared hope. Gareth Southgate did a superb job on picking up the managerial reins only 18 months ago, after a series of old-fashioned 'safe hands' appointments to the post. He inherited an aging squad, both physically and psychologically battered, and now has a group of youngsters of huge potential.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Karma_Yeshe » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:08 am

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:26 am
PeterC wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:11 am
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 am

I think you need to look at your World Cup history again. Eight Nations have won the World Cup and England is among them.
Once, yes. Uruguay has won it more. (Actually Uruguay was a serious team up to the 70s - it was good to see them do well this time.)

The problem with England is their almost unlimited capacity to disappoint. They give you a sliver of hope that perhaps, this year, finally...and then they crash and burn.
They didn't disappoint me. They did far better than I had dared hope. Gareth Southgate did a superb job on picking up the managerial reins only 18 months ago, after a series of old-fashioned 'safe hands' appointments to the post. He inherited an aging squad, both physically and psychologically battered, and now has a group of youngsters of huge potential.
:good:

If the englishmen would be dissapointed by the brave effort of their young, talented team (much more to come if you look at the results of the youth-tournaments) what should we, the germans, be?

Simon E.
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:27 am

Most adult English people long ago relinquished the idea that because we invented the modern game it gives us some kind of privilege.. :smile:

Gareth and the lads will return.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

PeterC
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by PeterC » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:40 am

Karma_Yeshe wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:08 am
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:26 am
PeterC wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:11 am


Once, yes. Uruguay has won it more. (Actually Uruguay was a serious team up to the 70s - it was good to see them do well this time.)

The problem with England is their almost unlimited capacity to disappoint. They give you a sliver of hope that perhaps, this year, finally...and then they crash and burn.
They didn't disappoint me. They did far better than I had dared hope. Gareth Southgate did a superb job on picking up the managerial reins only 18 months ago, after a series of old-fashioned 'safe hands' appointments to the post. He inherited an aging squad, both physically and psychologically battered, and now has a group of youngsters of huge potential.
:good:

If the englishmen would be dissapointed by the brave effort of their young, talented team (much more to come if you look at the results of the youth-tournaments) what should we, the germans, be?
Germany has been consistently the most successful team in the world cup for over half a century - won it four times, and qualified in every one since 1950 (when it couldn't enter). I think you can survive one bad year...

Simon E.
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:22 am

I'm sure they can and will.
Germany has a huge depth of footballing talent available. Whether Joachim Low will lead the National team next time is moot. At the moment he seems safe.
But safe is a relative term in the world of football.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Karma_Yeshe » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:46 pm

I think we need some change on the side of players. Germany has many players that won more or less everything there is (Özil, Müller, Hummels, Khedira, Kroos, Neuer...). They are just not that hungry any more (which I can totally understand). So if Löw and Bierhoff (who plays an important role, too) stay, at least some players have to leave.

The german television did a comparision with the result that when we got the goal against Mexico, the referee was running faster into the german half than most of the german defenders. I think this says alot. Good players alone will never win against good players who play together as a team and support each other on the field.

But yeah, we were successful enough in the past an Id am sure there will be other good Nationalmannschaften in the future.

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by TharpaChodron » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:26 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:27 am
Most adult English people long ago relinquished the idea that because we invented the modern game it gives us some kind of privilege.. :smile:

Gareth and the lads will return.
My Scottish husband says England thinks they're god's gift to soccer, but the only gifts from god to soccer come from Brazil. :mrgreen:

Simon E.
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:50 pm

Well unlike Scotland at least we qualified.
And having qualified reached the semi-finals.
And finished fourth overall. Higher than Spain, Italy, Germany or (cough) Brazil.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

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TharpaChodron
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by TharpaChodron » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:15 am

Simon E. wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:50 pm
Well unlike Scotland at least we qualified.
And having qualified reached the semi-finals.
And finished fourth overall. Higher than Spain, Italy, Germany or (cough) Brazil.
Like I said, the English think they're god's gift to soccer. ;) But anyhow, as a Brit I am sure you have a well developed sense of humour and can take the piss. :)

Scotland has some work to do for sure. Maybe they can emulate the Belgians and start retraining the youth leagues and create their own "golden generation."

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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Karma_Yeshe » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:42 am

So what are your thoughts about today's final?

I guess France will win, because their style fits really well against the way Croatia is playing.

Simon E.
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Simon E. » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:58 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:15 am
Simon E. wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:50 pm
Well unlike Scotland at least we qualified.
And having qualified reached the semi-finals.
And finished fourth overall. Higher than Spain, Italy, Germany or (cough) Brazil.
Like I said, the English think they're god's gift to soccer. ;) But anyhow, as a Brit I am sure you have a well developed sense of humour and can take the piss. :)

Scotland has some work to do for sure. Maybe they can emulate the Belgians and start retraining the youth leagues and create their own "golden generation."
As an Englishman I can assure you that no English person has thought that they were gods gift to football (no one uses the word soccer it's a dead give away) in 40 years. Hence the delight and relief in coming 4th.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

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DNS
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by DNS » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:54 pm

Vive la France!

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practitioner
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by practitioner » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:06 pm

Should have been 2-2, I’m still waiting for extra time to start.
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Simon E.
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Simon E. » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:14 pm

:applause: Well done Le Bleus.
Croatia were worthy opponents, but France deserve their trophy.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

Miroku
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Miroku » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:23 pm

I don't like football much but I was rooting for Croatia. Shame. :(
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
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You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Karma Dorje » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:43 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:23 pm
I don't like football much but I was rooting for Croatia. Shame. :(
I am outraged at the result. There was a CLEAR referee error! After Brozovic megged Pogba with a backheel, they should have stopped play and awarded Croatia the trophy. How could they miss that?!
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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DNS
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by DNS » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:09 pm

Soccer is a great sport, but the dives and cheaters are bad for the sport, imo. There are far too many players doing fake dives; it is basically cheating, imo. It is dishonest from a Dharmic perspective, un-sportsmanlike and has no place in sport. In (ice) hockey it is rarely to almost never done, afaik. I saw one player do it in hockey and he was sent to the penalty box for 2 minutes, his team playing with only 5 men instead of 6 which in hockey often results in a goal for the other team.

In soccer, games are often determined by one goal difference and so a referee awarding a penalty kick can be the difference in the game for who wins or loses. My suggestion for the sport (not that anyone important will listen) is to eliminate the divers and cheaters. It can easily be done. Just give yellow cards and red cards to the obvious fake divers. That will stop it for sure. I know sometimes it is hard to tell for the referee, but now all sports use instant replay analysis, so it really isn't that hard to find a fake dive any more.


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Karma Dorje
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Karma Dorje » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:30 pm

DNS wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:09 pm
Soccer is a great sport, but the dives and cheaters are bad for the sport, imo. There are far too many players doing fake dives; it is basically cheating, imo. It is dishonest from a Dharmic perspective, un-sportsmanlike and has no place in sport. In (ice) hockey it is rarely to almost never done, afaik. I saw one player do it in hockey and he was sent to the penalty box for 2 minutes, his team playing with only 5 men instead of 6 which in hockey often results in a goal for the other team.

In soccer, games are often determined by one goal difference and so a referee awarding a penalty kick can be the difference in the game for who wins or loses. My suggestion for the sport (not that anyone important will listen) is to eliminate the divers and cheaters. It can easily be done. Just give yellow cards and red cards to the obvious fake divers. That will stop it for sure. I know sometimes it is hard to tell for the referee, but now all sports use instant replay analysis, so it really isn't that hard to find a fake dive any more.
It's already there. From Law 12, FIFA Rules of the Game:
There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour, e.g. if a player:
... attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)
Instant replay (VAR) is only used in questions of a clear and obvious error on the part of the on field referee. VAR does allow for review and punishment at half-time, but if a dive led to a free kick that leads to a goal, that is not currently reviewable. Perhaps we will see VAR used to review dives, but it's new and evolving and we don't want to get to the state of American football with the constant breaks of play for review. It destroys the flow of the game which is its main strength. Moreover, VAR is not currently used across all leagues or competitions. Simulation is a small blemish on an otherwise beautiful game.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

Simon E.
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by Simon E. » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:55 am

I think in both the International game and in the English football league we see an increased awareness of simulation from both referees and linesmen. The degree to which it was starting to occur, eventually became a minor scandal and certainly the English F.A. (football association) has issued clear guidelines to it's referees.
During the tournament (and I am sensitive to the possibility of stereotyping) some evidence was produced to suggest that certain practices that are frowned on or even subject to sanctions including simulation, are encouraged, or even taught, in South American football. This is proving increasingly to be counterproductive in terms of International competition. It is noticeable that no South American team progressed beyond the quarterfinals. This is not to suggest of course that players from other Nations are innocent of those practices, but they are not institutionalised in the same way as they are in South America.
Is it safe to come out now? Looks to the left...Looks to the right.... :thinking:

PeterC
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Re: Football World Cup.

Post by PeterC » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:39 am

This is a topic on which the morality of the times has genuinely changed over the decades. Not so long ago it was annoying but viewed as part of the game (Klinsmann, for example). What I think prompted the increased scrutiny on the pitch was the way replay was used in football broadcasting - it was only really from the 90s onwards that it became standard to replay incidents from multiple angles with commentary during pauses in play, which allowed the spectators to see what the refs had missed. It's not the only example of changing standards of play - you see a lot less violence in games now than used to be the case, at all levels of competition.

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