Boers bent on relocating to Russia

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cyril
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Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by cyril » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:21 am

"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:13 am

Russia, quite frankly, is welcome to them.
Some of our loony-right pollies here were trying to give white South African farmers priority in our refugee intake programme because they were an oppressed minority in danger of their lives, blah, blah, e.g. https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy ... 28a361b045 :rolleye:

Meanwhile, of course, those same loony-right pollies run this obscene programme https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... d-refugees
A key United Nations body has condemned as arbitrary and illegal Australia’s indefinite incarceration of refugees and asylum seekers, issuing critical statements on five separate cases in a year. But those unlawfully held remain in indefinite detention, where they have been held for up to nine years without charge.

The working group on arbitrary detention is a key part of the UN’s Human Rights Council, on which Australia now sits after a years-long public and diplomatic campaign for the position.

The working group is an independent body of human rights experts that assesses cases of alleged arbitrary detention and reports to the council.
'They are breaking him': the stateless refugee Australia may never release
Read more

Since June of 2017 the arbitrary detention working group has published five opinions critical of Australia’s open-ended detention of asylum seekers and refugees. It has consistently argued Australia’s indefinite detention of some refugees and asylum seekers is unlawful.

In each of the five published opinions, the working group has recommended Australia immediately release the men held and pay them “compensation and other reparations” for their unlawful detention.

None of the men have been released. The youngest is 29 years old, the oldest 45. They each face detention without charge – in theory, potentially until the end of their lives. ...
:jedi:
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Grigoris
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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:34 am

They can send them to Siberia to farm snow and ice.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:44 am

cyril wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:21 am
I've got one next door. Asshole used to run canned hunts. Everything you can imagine as a caricature is present. Russia is more than welcome to them. Ya!
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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by shaunc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:08 am

Sometimes it's hard to believe that this is a Buddhist forum. The boddhisatva aspirations are just overwhelming.
There's 2 sayings that immediately come to mind.
1. If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.
2. It doesn't take much brains to keep your mouth shut.

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:48 pm

shaunc wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:08 am
Sometimes it's hard to believe that this is a Buddhist forum. The boddhisatva aspirations are just overwhelming.
There's 2 sayings that immediately come to mind.
1. If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.
2. It doesn't take much brains to keep your mouth shut.
Hi, Shaun,
I generally try to comply with (1) but IMO speaking out about injustice is more important - sometimes, at least. And Peter Dutton, as you probably know, is a thug and bully without (as far as I can see) the slightest shred of compassion or even common human decency. Opposing him and his cronies is a moral obligation. I only wish I could do more.
As for (2), I agree with the innumerable facebook memes which say silence in the face of injustice is support for the oppressor.

IMO Buddhism does not equal doormat-ism, passivity ... but that's probably why I spend most of my time on DWE https://dharmawheel.org/index.php instead of DWM or DWT these days. Restricting practice to the cushion doesn't really stretch those bodhisattva aspirations very far ...

:namaste:
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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Queequeg » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:08 pm

1. It occurred to me that white trash the world over tends to the same bankrupt sensibilities. The lot in that video looks like the crowd you might find in Sturgis. All of a sudden this casts a whole new light on the symbolism of Russia for Trumpistas and why they don't seem to be upset at the possibility that POTUS might be a Russian pawn.

2. I'm a fan of these Boers.



I imagine that Zef is to Boer as Juggalo is to Redneck.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by amanitamusc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:09 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:08 pm
1. It occurred to me that white trash the world over tends to the same bankrupt sensibilities. The lot in that video looks like the crowd you might find in Sturgis. All of a sudden this casts a whole new light on the symbolism of Russia for Trumpistas and why they don't seem to be upset at the possibility that POTUS might be a Russian pawn.

2. I'm a fan of these Boers.



I imagine that Zef is to Boer as Juggalo is to Redneck.
More on Zef.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zef

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 am

I really should not use that term, white trash. I apologize for using that slur. Also for red neck.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Dan74 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:47 am

It's hard to find reliable info on this story. Are they really threatened?? If so, they are eligible to apply for a refugee status and be assessed like everyone else.

I get what you are saying, Kim, in regards to Dutton's stance. Much of it is unseemly and the situation on Manus and Nauru is without a doubt, a tragic one. But let's try to delve a little deeper into the two opposing views. It is all too easy and glib to characterise the Aussie right-wing as racist and cruel and I think it is such attitudes that continue to fuel resentment and help swell their ranks.

Of course, Dutton supporters and Hansonites come from all sorts, including the racists, the ignorant and the angry looking for a scapegoat. But consider for a moment, folks whose neighbourhood is now full of people they feel no connection with, who speak a different language, whose kids go to the same school but bunch up with their own and gang up on the 'Aussie" kids. Consider the folks who got assaulted or whose family member was and who say that we took these people in only to be victimised by them. Consider the folks who see an 18-year-old Chinese kid in a luxury car, coming to Australia and taking their kid's Uni place, buying a house they cannot afford (partly thanks to the Chinese buyers inflating the market), etc etc. Even to mention such experiences is anathema in Australia, at least in my experience. Most of my friends would be shocked at me for bringing them up and would shrug it off as "those yobs", not being able to relate. This is how Trumps, or worse, are made.

Polarised societies where socio-economic groups don't talk, don't share, but just throw expletives at each other, are not the way, IMO.

And on the opposite side, yes, some progressive folks truly embrace diversity, find joy in the mixing and learning about other cultures, hearing the stories of people who came from a very different background and stretching out a hand to those who need it. Very few though. Most like to eat Asian and feel good about themselves for being modern, progressive and hip. Some even feel guilty about their WASP backgrounds and this is the way to assuage the guilt. I mean anyone who's ever been into politics knows there are lots of a&^%holes on the Left, maybe even more, but this is anecdotal.

I just think it is far from black and white.. As for the farmers, yes they are Boers, ie tainted by Apartheid, yes they are white. And yes, a column in the Age, Melbourne's preeminent slightly left-of-centre publication called for a curfew on men, just a few days ago, in the way of the tragic rape and murder of a young woman. Hard to see how this is so different from Trump's Muslim ban (clearly worse, since the Muslims he wanted to ban were non-citizens wishing to enter the country, but the logic is the same). Let's be careful not to fall into this kind of thinking.
Last edited by Dan74 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:54 am

Dan74 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:47 am
It is all too easy and glib to characterise the Aussie right-wing as racist and cruel...
Quack-quack!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:24 am

Grigoris wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:54 am
Dan74 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:47 am
It is all too easy and glib to characterise the Aussie right-wing as racist and cruel...
Quack-quack!
If that's shorthand for, "If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..." then I agree completely.
Dan, you're quite correct (better not say "right" :tongue: ) in a lot of what you say but Dutton is far beyond any position for which I can find the slightest sympathy. He makes Abbott look like a beacon of sanity and compassion - and I didn't expect that anyone could ever do that.

But he plays adroitly to people who are fearful, amplifying their fears even while promising to protect them.

The best we can do is to show and teach them that they really don't have to be scared. Migrant Resource Centres are doing good work in this field, encouraging people of all backgrounds to learn about each other and know each other as individuals - which to me is the real key to breaking down the stereotypes.

Yes, it's going to be a long process, but the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

:namaste:
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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by tingdzin » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:16 am

WEll, Dan, I hear you, but I don't think other people are getting your point.

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:27 am

tingdzin wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:16 am
WEll, Dan, I hear you, but I don't think other people are getting your point.
I get it, I just don't agree with it. People don't become racists purely out of reaction, some people love to hate, regardless of what you say to them. Karma, yah know?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Dan74 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:48 am

Grigoris wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:27 am
tingdzin wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:16 am
WEll, Dan, I hear you, but I don't think other people are getting your point.
I get it, I just don't agree with it. People don't become racists purely out of reaction, some people love to hate, regardless of what you say to them. Karma, yah know?
Which part don't you agree with, Greg? I don't think I tried to justify people being racist, though yes, it can and does happen from a variety of reasons, ranging from fear, ignorance and generalised anger to negative experiences and upbringing.

What I did try to show was that some people have legitimate reasons for feeling disgruntled with a migrant/refugee intake, which does not equate to being racist. Incidentally, until very recently Australia's migrant intake was not even a subject of a public debate - all the angst it generated was deftly sublimated by the pollies onto the "boat-people", a tiny fraction of the migrant influx. But never mind that - there are so many lies and taboos when it comes to this topic, as well as the well-meaning folks all too eager to start hurling epithets..

Once again, we've got to grow up and leave the binary "with us or against us" thinking behind. Every significant issue has more than two sides to it.

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:22 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:48 am
What I did try to show was that some people have legitimate reasons for feeling disgruntled with a migrant/refugee intake, which does not equate to being racist.
What you consider legitimate, I consider completely illegitimate and totally racist. Sickeningly so. Since when was jealousy a legitimate reason to hate somebody?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Dan74 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:35 pm

I didn't mention hate. I said people are disgruntled with the way their society, their neighbourhoods, their streets and schools are changing. You seem to uniformly dismiss them as haters and racists.

Such has not been my experience. For instance, in the prison, where I used to go as a chaplain, there was a Salvos chaplain who lived in Roxburgh Park, a suburb most of my middle class friends don't know exists. He told me how in Primary school his kids had muslim friends and there were no issues. But in the Secondary, suddenly it was muslims vs the skips and things got so heated, he had to pull his kid out of school, as did many other wasp parents. This is just an anecdote and far from the worst I've heard. The difference is I knew the chap quite well, we chatted about a lot of things.

All I am saying is that there are issues that come with an influx of people and those who tend to bear the brunt of them are often denied any voice and maligned as racists. My attitude is that people are entitled to share their stories and as a community, this is how we face and address concerns. Not by shouting divergent experiences down.

It is not about Dutton or Hanson. These folks have the regretable prominence that they have in part because the Left does not listen but malign and shut down the voices of those it once sought to represent. The workers, the poor.

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:08 pm

What you fail to understand is that migrants/refugees are forced into segregation. They come into a society where they are immediately distrusted and not accepted. They are viewed with suspicion and disdain for no reason other than the fact that they are different. They are seen as threat rather than a boon. They have no choice but to congregate in ghettos. Even integration is a farce, as it just means that you have to adopt the traits of the dominant, or risk being marginalised. If you do adopt the culture you are considered a traitor by "your people" and if you happen to be the wrong shade you are not accepted by "the other" anyway.

I remember when I was in Australia, even though I had been born in New Zealand and raised and educated in Australia, I would go to job interviews and be asked "Where are you from?" A friend of mine, whose ancestors had migrated to Australia from China during the gold rush, was continuously discriminated against by "white" people who's ancestors had migrated to Australia a few hundred years after her's.

So, WASP can stick their disgruntlement up the proverbial, and that is without even taking into account that they are the offspring of murderous colonialists, who realistically should have no say AT ALL about who enters Australia (either legally or illegally).
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by Dan74 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:18 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:08 pm
What you fail to understand is that migrants/refugees are forced into segregation. They come into a society where they are immediately distrusted and not accepted. They are viewed with suspicion and disdain for no reason other than the fact that they are different. They are seen as threat rather than a boon. They have no choice but to congregate in ghettos. Even integration is a farce, as it just means that you have to adopt the traits of the dominant, or risk being marginalised. If you do adopt the culture you are considered a traitor by "your people" and if you happen to be the wrong shade you are not accepted by "the other" anyway.

I remember when I was in Australia, even though I had been born in New Zealand and raised and educated in Australia, I would go to job interviews and be asked "Where are you from?" A friend of mine, whose ancestors had migrated to Australia from China during the gold rush, was continuously discriminated against by "white" people who's ancestors had migrated to Australia a few hundred years after her's.

So, WASP can stick their disgruntlement up the proverbial, and that is without even taking into account that they are the offspring of murderous colonialists, who realistically should have no say AT ALL about who enters Australia (either legally or illegally).
Greg, I don't fail to understand this, I've experienced all this having moved to Australia without a penny back in 1988 and experiencing it all over again now in Switzerland. Human beings are inherently tribal and have difficulty imagining what it's like in other people's shoes. All the more reason for compassion and patience. In Australia I could roll off dozens of examples of prejudice and stupidity, but also of really kind and helpful people. It's the only home I really know, but hey, not perfect, nothing is.

Oh, and while I don't have your handsome Mediterranean looks (sadly), I've got an accent I kept after all these years. Some folks still shut down when they hear it and can't bring themselves to understand a word I say. Here it's much worse of course (my German objectively sucks). A checkout lady at a local discount supermarket here always gives me a dirty look when I shop (I should be at work I guess - I work Tuesdays and Thursdays and nights). And one of my lecturers at the Teachers College in Bern never could get past it. I had wondered why he never responded to anything I said in class but it all became clear when I got my essay back. He wrote that my German was just too bad, impossible to comprehend and certainly not good enough for teaching Swiss children (he didn't comment on the content). Funnily enough, my wife wrote that essay for me (from my sketch in English) - I was running out of time so bad and she is Swiss and her German is flawless, but his mind had already been made up. We didn't know whether to laugh or cry. All the other essays were written by me and the German was never an issue for the other lecturers! I call that a good score, by the way.

So look, yes, absolutely, it's tough on the newcomers and especially the asylum seekers and most manage admirably. Some don't and as usual the poorer demographic whose factories shut down thanks to globalisation, who are no longer needed or relevant, have to share their neighbourhoods with the similarly unsuccessful newcomers, deal with their out-of-control kids while having their strange language, clothes and manners thrust into their view and wonder where it all went so horribly wrong for them. I guess it calls for human solidarity, bonding and trying to change things for the better togethe and this happens too, but more often than not, folks take out their frustrations on each other. Life is tough for a lot of people as you well know and while this is no excuse, the extra difficulties and annoyances, not to mention the Sudanese gangs or the Lebanese rape squads, make already angry folks angrier.

You can choose to turn a blind eye to the real problems so many WASPs deal with, maybe because in your heart it's all either-or, but hey, they are people too, deserving of compassion. And they are not all wrong. They've been sorely neglected and ignored for too long. This is the primary problem. And then those poor sods are dumped on their neighbourhoods and their schools, not your South Yarra or Carlton, not your Scotch College or Geelong Grammar. Ask why support for Hanson and Dutton is strongest in such neighbourhoods. Why aren't they cheering Wilkie or Burnside?

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Re: Boers bent on relocating to Russia

Post by shaunc » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:23 pm

Thanks for your replies Dan. It's refreshing to hear a point of view that's more centered rather than being so far left it's off the road.
As a trade union member it's always been a sore spot with me that a percentage of my union fees are used to fund the labor party.
Traditionally the labor party was the political arm of the trade union movement but it's been many years since the labor party looked out for the working class man.
Many people would rather throw their vote towards an independent or smaller party.
The left wing of politics are far more interested in looking after the left handed lesbians skate board riders association than taking care of the men on the factory floor who put them in the position they're in.
It's high time that those who pay the piper call the tune.

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