Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.
Miroku
Posts: 906
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18218
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:16 am

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
No.

Anyway, Europeans have a religion driven culture too, remember? So your argument is moot. And that is ignoring the fact that Islam is an Abrahamic religion and thus has the same ethical and theological basis as Christianity.

And... just so you know: there have been Muslims in Europe almost since Islam began and guess what? Completely compatible. Actually many innovations that originated in Muslim countries made our life infinitely better.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Miroku
Posts: 906
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:34 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:16 am
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
No.

Anyway, Europeans have a religion driven culture too, remember? So your argument is moot. And that is ignoring the fact that Islam is an Abrahamic religion and thus has the same ethical and theological basis as Christianity.

And... just so you know: there have been Muslims in Europe almost since Islam began and guess what? Completely compatible. Actually many innovations that originated in Muslim countries made our life infinitely better.
True we do have it, however we seem to be more on the secular side of things. Or we were ... this gets bit worse here in Czechia.

Oh, even I know that. :D I am not that stupid. I know that renneisance would not happen without muslim scholars. I know there are native groups of muslims in the Balcan region. I know Spain used to be muslim and actually quite modern compared to rest of Europe. We actually know about africans in England in medieval ages. Also in Vienna when Turks were sieging it there were muslims defending it.

Please understand that I am not bigoted, neither on the right side of the spectrum. I am just genuinely concerned that in such numbers there could be big problems for integration especially if combined with radical imams who although minority are still present in here.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 1696
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: Mudhole? Slimy? My home, this is.

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:38 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:16 am
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
No.
:good: :good: :good:
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18218
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:45 am

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:34 am
Please understand that I am not bigoted, neither on the right side of the spectrum. I am just genuinely concerned that in such numbers there could be big problems for integration especially if combined with radical imams who although minority are still present in here.
You know what the problem is with intergration? We never stop to ask ourselves if what we want people to intergrate into is actually worth being a part of.

If you say to somebody: "I want you to integrate into my colourless, joyless and pointless nihilistic and exploitative model of existence." Would it come as a surprise to you if they say "No thanks"?

I don't want to be integrated into that, so why would refugees and migrants want to be integrated into it?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:28 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Sherab » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:17 am

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
I don't live in that part of the world but I can see how the situation has deteriorated over the years. So yes, I agree with the Dalai Lama when he said "Receive them, help them, educate them... but ultimately they should develop their own country," since I also agree that "Europe belongs to the Europeans" .

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18218
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:44 am

Sherab wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:17 am
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
I don't live in that part of the world but I can see how the situation has deteriorated over the years. So yes, I agree with the Dalai Lama when he said "Receive them, help them, educate them... but ultimately they should develop their own country," since I also agree that "Europe belongs to the Europeans" .
Europe does not belong to anybody. Europe is a (crudely defined) geographical location and a geological mass, nobody has any legitimate claim to ownership of it.

Anyway, anybody that lives in Europe is by definition a European.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

amanitamusc
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:09 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:45 am
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:34 am
Please understand that I am not bigoted, neither on the right side of the spectrum. I am just genuinely concerned that in such numbers there could be big problems for integration especially if combined with radical imams who although minority are still present in here.
You know what the problem is with intergration? We never stop to ask ourselves if what we want people to intergrate into is actually worth being a part of.

If you say to somebody: "I want you to integrate into my colourless, joyless and pointless nihilistic and exploitative model of existence." Would it come as a surprise to you if they say "No thanks"?

I don't want to be integrated into that, so why would refugees and migrants want to be integrated into it?
They leave where they came from for something better.Very sad.

amanitamusc
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:14 am

Sherab wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:17 am
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
I don't live in that part of the world but I can see how the situation has deteriorated over the years. So yes, I agree with the Dalai Lama when he said "Receive them, help them, educate them... but ultimately they should develop their own country," since I also agree that "Europe belongs to the Europeans" .
We are fortunate the Native Americans didn't do that with the Europeans
that came to North America.But look what happened to them for their kindness.
Casino's and poverty. :shrug:

Miroku
Posts: 906
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:25 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:14 am
Sherab wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:17 am
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
I don't live in that part of the world but I can see how the situation has deteriorated over the years. So yes, I agree with the Dalai Lama when he said "Receive them, help them, educate them... but ultimately they should develop their own country," since I also agree that "Europe belongs to the Europeans" .
We are fortunate the Native Americans didn't do that with the Europeans
that came to North America.But look what happened to them for their kindness.
Casino's and poverty. :shrug:
That is not the same. In that case it was an intentional conquest. Europeans wanted more land, gold and decided to colonize the land and "civilize the savages".

This is in no way like that.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

amanitamusc
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:33 am

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:25 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:14 am
Sherab wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:17 am

I don't live in that part of the world but I can see how the situation has deteriorated over the years. So yes, I agree with the Dalai Lama when he said "Receive them, help them, educate them... but ultimately they should develop their own country," since I also agree that "Europe belongs to the Europeans" .
We are fortunate the Native Americans didn't do that with the Europeans
that came to North America.But look what happened to them for their kindness.
Casino's and poverty. :shrug:

That is not the same. In that case it was an intentional conquest. Europeans wanted more land, gold and decided to colonize the land and "civilize the savages".

This is in no way like that.
True not a good comparison at all.But these are the types of things that Trump the
fear into the ignorant.

Miroku
Posts: 906
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:36 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:33 am
True not a good comparison at all.But these are the types of things that Trump the
fear into the ignorant.
Not only him.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18218
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:16 pm

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
PS Many of the refugees and migrants coming to Europe are Christians.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

amanitamusc
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:46 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:16 pm
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
PS Many of the refugees and migrants coming to Europe are Christians.
Within the camps/compounds do the migrants self segregate by religion?

Miroku
Posts: 906
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:48 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:16 pm
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
PS Many of the refugees and migrants coming to Europe are Christians.
True. We wanted a family or two of those in CZ few years back but due to horrible treatment they ran away. Although the problems with refugees are debatable what definetly is not debatable is the fear mongering and the activity of far right that is a fact.

PS Not a big fan of Christians. If I had to chose then Jews are my favs. :tongue:
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 1746
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Mantrik » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:58 pm

Some regard the UK as a 'Christian country' and cannot see the irony in their preference of one imported religion over another. Don't know about the rest of Europe but our indigenous religion disappeared long ago and almost all of our culture is the result of war and migration. Twas ever thus and adding more religions is not of itself problematic.

However, any immigrants seeking the destruction of their host culture and to live under separate laws in closed communities within it are of course incompatible.

Integration is not a matter of deciding if the indigenous culture is better or worse than that of the immigrants. It is a matter of finding commonality, of seeking ways where co-existence is possible.

Having experienced several IRA bombings I know what it can be like when hate hits the streets. I believe that the violence will return because there has been no solution and no end to the sectarianism, and local government has collapsed.

We can't afford to get integration wrong with even more religious sectarian groups, yet we have, and seem to have slid into the same city ghetto situation which in the past led to military control of the rival areas on our streets.

IF correctly reported, it seems rather odd for HHDL to comment as he did when their chances of pouring back into Tibet to rebuild it are slim, and also seems odd when at one time the thinking was that the expulsion was karma ripening positively to spread Vajrayana via the diaspora. Would that not also be true of other situations which have led to enforced migration? Hmmm.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

User avatar
Dan74
Founding Member
Posts: 2496
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Lyss, Switzerland

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Dan74 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:29 pm

I think what HH the Dalai Lama is saying is not quite realistic. When is this 'ultimately' he refers to? When their children are born in Europe, go to European schools, speak the local language better than the language of their parents, when the war in their country of origin is over, their should just uproot again, drag their kids from the only home they know and go back?? I don't find that to be a sensible or a humane demand.

User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 1696
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: Mudhole? Slimy? My home, this is.

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:43 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:29 pm
I think what HH the Dalai Lama is saying is not quite realistic. When is this 'ultimately' he refers to? When their children are born in Europe, go to European schools, speak the local language better than the language of their parents, when the war in their country of origin is over, their should just uproot again, drag their kids from the only home they know and go back?? I don't find that to be a sensible or a humane demand.
The obvious context is: please give us back our Tibet. We cannot go on like this, strangers in strange lands. We badly need to go home.

Making his words into some kind of fascist call for segregation is insane, imo.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

Norwegian
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Norwegian » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:12 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:43 pm
The obvious context is: please give us back our Tibet. We cannot go on like this, strangers in strange lands. We badly need to go home.

Making his words into some kind of fascist call for segregation is insane, imo.
HHDL has said the same thing for years now:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=22869#p341204

amanitamusc
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:27 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:12 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:43 pm
The obvious context is: please give us back our Tibet. We cannot go on like this, strangers in strange lands. We badly need to go home.

Making his words into some kind of fascist call for segregation is insane, imo.
HHDL has said the same thing for years now:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=22869#p341204
:good:

Locked

Return to “News & Current Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests