Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.
User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:53 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:43 pm
AFAIK, the issues we see around migration have a lot of complexity, but a significant aspect is a really primal level reaction about how one feels attachment to their home. Its never been easy for people to move into another's space. It never will be easy. That's just something about how we're wired. Hand wringing about how its awful kind of misses the point and is a loser fight.
And this is exactly why European far-Righters HATE gypsies. Gypsies show us that this attachment to a particular geographical location is baseless and useless. They show quite clearly that a nomadic lifestyle without attachment to ideas of nations and states is possible and viable.
Hungarian Roma awaiting deportation autumn 1944.jpg
Hungarian Roma awaiting deportation autumn 1944.jpg (78.76 KiB) Viewed 812 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: Mudhole? Slimy? My home, this is.

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:56 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:53 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:43 pm
AFAIK, the issues we see around migration have a lot of complexity, but a significant aspect is a really primal level reaction about how one feels attachment to their home. Its never been easy for people to move into another's space. It never will be easy. That's just something about how we're wired. Hand wringing about how its awful kind of misses the point and is a loser fight.
And this is exactly why European far-Righters HATE gypsies. Gypsies show us that this attachment to a particular geographical location is baseless and useless. They show quite clearly that a nomadic lifestyle without attachment to ideas of nations and states is possible and viable.

Hungarian Roma awaiting deportation autumn 1944.jpg
Their legend is also a reminder that the kind of life which the vast majority of us are forced to live these days is indeed one of quiet desperation. Which I think is another reason why your average citizen, whether middle class or working class, hates and despises them so much.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6455
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:27 pm

Nothing I express here should be interpreted as condoning human rights abuses.

Realistically, the nomadic lifestyle is not coming back except in the most limited circumstances. The steppes have been tamed. And life on the steppes was not some sort of Eden. Nomads, like Roma, in any event, are not steppe tribes. They are nomads among settled people. They hold themselves apart as they are held apart. Communities like that are always seen with distrust and not just because they're some conscious or sub-conscious reminder of some lost freedom. Maybe to some people. To many, indifference holds until they are impinged in some way.

Again, its just a function of how we are wired. We resort to primal means of trying to get whatever we want, whether we're the invader or invaded. In the past, the winner was whoever was left standing with a knife over the vanquished. We still do this, but hopefully less and less.

Notwithstanding...

Sangha is supposed to be free like that. One of my favorite quotes in all the Buddhist texts:

'Household life is confining, a dusty path. The life gone forth is like the open air. It is not easy living at home to practice the holy life totally perfect, totally pure, like a polished shell. What if I were to shave off my hair and beard, put on the ochre robes, and go forth from the household life into homelessness?'

The sangha, however, was subject to rules that in many respects were designed to limit the impact of these wanderers on the householders. Like moving on and not staying someplace too long, becoming a burden on the householders. Not all nomads are so conscientious.

My in-laws have a nagging concern that I'm going to one day just say, "f-it. I'm out." LOL

Quiet Desperation... not all of us are repressed Englishmen. LOL
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
cyril
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:47 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by cyril » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:25 pm

You are assuming that because people think in a certain manner (or within certain conceptual frameworks) in our era that they did so 5000 years ago. Well they don't.
I am not assuming anything. I gave you the example of Herodotus but you chose to trivialize it. Here is the quote in the context:

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi ... .2&getid=1

”...and next the kinship of all Greeks in blood and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of life...”

This is a 400 BC Greek talking about Hellas and about Greeks as a whole. To me, it shows awareness of a Pan-Hellenic national identity despite the diversity within. To you, it looks like a possible hidden political agenda. Oh, well..
You are trying to convince me that there is a single European identity and your only evidence of this is that there are various national identities? I am giving you ample examples of how even the idea of a national identity is false. Where is your evidence for a unified European identity? NOWHERE
Likewise, there is kinship of all Europeans in the shared Greco-Roman foundation of their cultural heritage, Enlightenment values, Christian values, democracy, individual freedom and reason. There are also other things which, unfortunately, I cannot quite put my finger on; the fabric of the European identity is intricate and often very subtle. Nevertheless, they tie together the various European cultures together despite the obvious diversity and make the European identity being more than a social construct or the sum of the various national identities.
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28692
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Malcolm » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:30 pm

This kind of essentialism results in holocausts.

cyril wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:25 pm
You are assuming that because people think in a certain manner (or within certain conceptual frameworks) in our era that they did so 5000 years ago. Well they don't.
I am not assuming anything. I gave you the example of Herodotus but you chose to trivialize it. Here is the quote in the context:

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi ... .2&getid=1

”...and next the kinship of all Greeks in blood and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of life...”

This is a 400 BC Greek talking about Hellas and about Greeks as a whole. To me, it shows awareness of a Pan-Hellenic national identity despite the diversity within. To you, it looks like a possible hidden political agenda. Oh, well..
You are trying to convince me that there is a single European identity and your only evidence of this is that there are various national identities? I am giving you ample examples of how even the idea of a national identity is false. Where is your evidence for a unified European identity? NOWHERE
Likewise, there is kinship of all Europeans in the shared Greco-Roman foundation of their cultural heritage, Enlightenment values, Christian values, democracy, individual freedom and reason. There are also other things which, unfortunately, I cannot quite put my finger on; the fabric of the European identity is intricate and often very subtle. Nevertheless, they tie together the various European cultures together despite the obvious diversity and make the European identity being more than a social construct or the sum of the various national identities.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
cyril
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:47 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by cyril » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:42 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:53 pm
And this is exactly why European far-Righters HATE gypsies. Gypsies show us that this attachment to a particular geographical location is baseless and useless. They show quite clearly that a nomadic lifestyle without attachment to ideas of nations and states is possible and viable.

FYI, Grigoris, the Gypsies call themselves Rrom (or Rroma) which simply means ”human being”. People like me and you are called ”gadjo” (or ”gadjini” if female) which simply means ”somebody who just falls short of being a true human being”. With the corrolary that there is nothing morally wrong in cheating, stealing from or even killing a gadjo. So, yeah, that's clearly a lifestyle without any attachment to the ideas of race, ethnicity & stuff.
Bahta delo, phrale! Enjoy your fantasy!
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:04 pm

cyril wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:42 pm
FYI, Grigoris, the Gypsies call themselves Rrom (or Rroma) which simply means ”human being”. People like me and you are called ”gadjo” (or ”gadjini” if female) which simply means ”somebody who just falls short of being a true human being”. With the corrolary that there is nothing morally wrong in cheating, stealing from or even killing a gadjo. So, yeah, that's clearly a lifestyle without any attachment to the ideas of race, ethnicity & stuff.
Bahta delo, phrale! Enjoy your fantasy!
When was the last time Roma launched a genocide against the sub-humans?

I would say their classification of us a sub-humans is pretty accurate given our track record.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:17 pm

cyril wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:25 pm
This is a 400 BC Greek talking about Hellas and about Greeks as a whole. To me, it shows awareness of a Pan-Hellenic national identity despite the diversity within. To you, it looks like a possible hidden political agenda. Oh, well..
You really have NO idea what you are talking about... Go read the text you linked to and come back and tell me who said it, who it was directed towards and what was their motivation for saying it.
Likewise, there is kinship of all Europeans in the shared Greco-Roman foundation of their cultural heritage...
Hogwash. You seem to forget that the Romans (and earlier the Greeks) were colonisers and empire builders that enforced their values on their subjects.
Enlightenment values
Like I said earlier: we saw how those values benefited the Americas, etc...
Christian values, democracy
Not all Europeans are Christian and Christianity is not a European religion. You also overlook occurrences like: the Hundred Year War, the Orthodox Catholic split, the Fourth Crusade, etc...
individual freedom and reason.
cf my reply to "Enlightenment values" with the addendum of "exclusively for white and rich people".
Nevertheless, they tie together the various European cultures together despite the obvious diversity and make the European identity being more than a social construct or the sum of the various national identities.
Poetic nonsense without any basis in reality. Seems you forgot about WWI, WWII and colonialism and various other glitches. European culture at it's finest.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6175
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by kirtu » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:20 pm

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
Unfortunately HHDL does not understand the issues or the history. This will unfortunately be used by people advocating forms of race or culturally based nationalism and exclusion.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6455
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:38 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:04 pm
cyril wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:42 pm
FYI, Grigoris, the Gypsies call themselves Rrom (or Rroma) which simply means ”human being”. People like me and you are called ”gadjo” (or ”gadjini” if female) which simply means ”somebody who just falls short of being a true human being”. With the corrolary that there is nothing morally wrong in cheating, stealing from or even killing a gadjo. So, yeah, that's clearly a lifestyle without any attachment to the ideas of race, ethnicity & stuff.
Bahta delo, phrale! Enjoy your fantasy!
When was the last time Roma launched a genocide against the sub-humans?

I would say their classification of us a sub-humans is pretty accurate given our track record.
Oh Christ. It's one thing to condemn genocide. It's another to read superior judgment into the terms of their language.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 1220
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:28 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Sherab » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:10 am

kirtu wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:20 pm
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
Unfortunately HHDL does not understand the issues or the history. ...

Kirt
But surely HHDL does understand human nature..... and reality.

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6175
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by kirtu » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:13 am

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:53 pm
And this is exactly why European far-Righters HATE gypsies. ...
Hungarian Roma awaiting deportation autumn 1944.jpg
Greg - I have been shocked more than once to hear a German friend in Germany say something negative about the Roma - like right in front of me and in connection with a Roma person that they saw on the street. One friend even spontaneously used the equivalent of the "N" word because of something that happened on the street (in this case because of an argument that two immigrants were having in public).

So this corrosive speech and thinking doesn't just affect far-Righters, unfortunately. It is so sad.

Having said that I have only heard this three times in my life but it's still disturbing.

But we have the opportunity to help people cherish and eventually love one another.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6175
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by kirtu » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:16 am

Sherab wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:10 am
kirtu wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:20 pm
Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/govern ... -europeans

Quite honestly, I have to agree with H.H. I am not super happy about it but I am starting to be afraid that their religion driven culture will prove to be incompatible with our European ones.

What do you guys think?
Unfortunately HHDL does not understand the issues or the history. ...

Kirt
But surely HHDL does understand human nature..... and reality.
He is omniscient wrt Buddhadharma.

Human nature - no, not completely because cultures are different and he didn't understand that westerners were capable of self-harm (and in fact the Tibetans ignored there own history of self-harm).

Reality - no, he definitely understands much of reality but he doesn't understand European history as well as he should otherwise he would not have made this statement.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 1220
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:28 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Sherab » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:10 am

kirtu wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:16 am
Sherab wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:10 am
kirtu wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:20 pm


Unfortunately HHDL does not understand the issues or the history. ...

Kirt
But surely HHDL does understand human nature..... and reality.
He is omniscient wrt Buddhadharma.

Human nature - no, not completely because cultures are different and he didn't understand that westerners were capable of self-harm (and in fact the Tibetans ignored there own history of self-harm).

Reality - no, he definitely understands much of reality but he doesn't understand European history as well as he should otherwise he would not have made this statement.

Kirt
This would imply that HHDL does not know what is good and not good for a group of people as his knowledge is limited only to the Buddha Dharma. He also cannot be considered as omniscient since it implies that even if he directs his mind to the issue, he would have no understanding of it. If he is omniscient, then it would imply that he was careless and not bodhisattvic in not directing his mind to the issue before he answered the question of the reporter.

User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 1220
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:28 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Sherab » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:12 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:03 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:04 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:51 pm
None of this answers the question as to why anybody should care what HHDL's view on European migration policy is.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a major international figure. That usually means whatever such a person says or does, is viewed with interest. He is a Nobel Laureate (the Nobel Peace Prize, which he received back in the days when that prize meant something).

Moreover he is a major Buddhist teacher, so certainly he has the attention from those who are interested in, sympathetic with, or actually are Buddhists (certainly those who are Indo-Tibetan Buddhists). He is a refugee himself, since 1959, and is considered a leader of his people, so he certainly has knowledge and experience of how it is to be a refugee. Then, from the point of view of Vajrayana itself, he certainly is the guru of many gurus (that we have), so that's one thing. Another is that he's considered to be an emanation of Avalokiteshvara himself.

I am sure there are many more factors as to why anybody are interested in his views on either this or that. And so yes, these things explain the why-question of yours above.

The reason why HHDL states this is obvious: he wants Tibet for Tibetans. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. Otherwise everything that Grigoris points out is absolutely correct. Nationalism is the wrong way.
Although I don't think you intended it but your post does seemed to me to imply that HHDL only thinks of the Tibetan and not other sentient beings.

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6175
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by kirtu » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:17 am

Sherab wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:10 am
kirtu wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:16 am
Sherab wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:10 am

But surely HHDL does understand human nature..... and reality.
He is omniscient wrt Buddhadharma.

Human nature - no, not completely because cultures are different and he didn't understand that westerners were capable of self-harm (and in fact the Tibetans ignored there own history of self-harm).

Reality - no, he definitely understands much of reality but he doesn't understand European history as well as he should otherwise he would not have made this statement.

Kirt
This would imply that HHDL does not know what is good and not good for a group of people as his knowledge is limited only to the Buddha Dharma. He also cannot be considered as omniscient since it implies that even if he directs his mind to the issue, he would have no understanding of it. If he is omniscient, then it would imply that he was careless and not bodhisattvic in not directing his mind to the issue before he answered the question of the reporter.
No, he is omniscient wrt Buddhadharma.

He is not omniscient wrt individual people or to groups. However he may have insight about individuals or groups as well (via divination or other means - I can't find the sutta but Shakyamuni Buddha's omniscience is restricted to Buddhadharma mostly although he can have other valid knowledge but in one particular sutta SHakyamuni is asked if he learned of some particular thing through direct insight or a deva - and as I remember it the answer was a deva [in this case]).

Mahayana omniscience is greatly expanded. HHDL has already said he does not have this.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:07 am

kirtu wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:17 am
No, he is omniscient wrt Buddhadharma.
I don't know if this is the case. I guess it depends on if you define Buddhadharma in terms of it's essence rather than it's words.

Let's avoid ascribing to HHDL the quality of "Papal infallibility". We all (should) know what sort of problems that leads to.

Let's cut him some slack and let him make mistakes. He is a human after all.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 am

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:38 pm
Oh Christ. It's one thing to condemn genocide. It's another to read superior judgment into the terms of their language.
Don't get your knickers in a knot. It's called hyperbole. I am going to push as hard as I can when I am pushed, so that hopefully it will lead to a mutually beneficial position.

The stuff Cyril quotes is exactly the sort of "facts" that were used to justify the Holocaust of the gypsies in WWII and various pogroms against them during European history.

Actually, if there is a single characteristic that Europeans share it is probably the hatred of minority groups. But then again: that is not a specifically European trait.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:18 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:30 pm
This kind of essentialism results in holocausts.
I do believe our friend Cyril may be partial to essentialist holocaust invoking theories.

He seems to be a little too clued-up on supporting rhetoric to not be. ;)

I wonder which European nation our friend Cyril comes from?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Dan74
Founding Member
Posts: 2486
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Lyss, Switzerland

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Dan74 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:44 am

Of course, if European identity is even 'a thing', it is an extremely heterogenous diffuse 'thing'. And yet, there are such things like German cinema, Irish music, Greek cuisine, English humour, etc. There are within and between the nations, a diversity of cultural heritage that is surely worth preserving.

Sometimes an influx of migrants or refugees enrich the cultural landscape and there is serious potential that it does this time too. One thing though, my experience observing things here in Switzerland is that the way newcomers (especially refugees from very different backgrounds) are welcomed leaves a lot to be desired. For instance, children are provided with no schooling for years while their applications are considered. It is left to private schools, like the Steiner school where I teach, to take a smattering here and there and mostly at their own expense.

A French teacher at my school shared a story with me that when there was an assault on a woman in her town by a refugee, the asylum seekers organised to go into the streets and hand out flowers to women. There is a lot of negative talk about the asylum seekers. Of course there's going to be a few bad eggs in every community. But how often do we reflect on what we do? How we treat a newcomer to our town, who has possibly experienced horrors that we cannot even imagine? Yesterday, I chatted to a Tamil lady who runs a shop just across the road from us, and when she recalled the war, she started crying, remembering the dead children she saw carried in front of her house... I think many, especially older locals here have no idea and are just annoyed that these people are 'invading their village', and then complain that they don't integrate... I mean for crying out loud, how can people integrate into a society which not only takes no interest in them but resents their very presence?

So sometimes I do think it is wrong to allow them in. Because it just seems like an insincere or a half-hearted action. Either let people in and welcome them, help them. Or don't.

Locked

Return to “News & Current Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests