Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.
User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17682
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:16 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:44 am
So sometimes I do think it is wrong to allow them in. Because it just seems like an insincere or a half-hearted action. Either let people in and welcome them, help them. Or don't.
No, it doesn't work like that. That would be used as an excuse to not engage in introspection and compassion, so that you could justify being inhuman and shutting out people that desperately need help.

The stories I hear on a daily basis are absolutely horrific. Mindbogglingly so.

Every morning at work we sit down to process the new referrals to the clinic, to see which professional will take which case.

It goes like this:

Blah-blah is from blah. Their family/loved ones were killed in front of them. The killers raped their family member/loved one before killing them. The killers then raped them too. They then jailed and tortured them. They escaped and found some smugglers. The smugglers sold them into slavery. Their captors beat and raped them. They escaped from their captors and were captured by police who jailed, tortured and beat them. They were released after some time and found other smugglers. They were captured by police while trying to cross into Greece on an overloaded dinghy whose engine cut out in the middle of the sea. They were returned to the country where they were previously enslaved, raped, beaten and jailed. They found new smugglers and managed to cross into Greece. Now they are living in a prison camp waiting to be processed. They face the possibility of being returned to the abovementioned countries they managed to escape from.

This story applies both for the men and women that I treat.

I listen to this EVERY MORNING.

Now, granted, we generally see the worst cases. But there are a lot of them. And there are a lot out there that fall through the net and do not receive treatment. There are others that are lucky enough to have friends that help them deal with these issues, so they don't come to us for help.

No, we cannot refuse to help these people.

If we are on the Bodhisattva path it would be a violation of our vows to not receive and help these people, no matter how hard it may be for us to do so.

The indignant, angry, exasperated and frustrated (white) types that prefer building walls and fretting over losing their privileges can just suck it up and blow it out their hole for all I care. Their fears are unfounded, pathetic and irrelevant.

Now if somebody else wants to go off and console their butthurt white ego, please feel free to do so. I personally have more important things to attend to.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
cyril
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:47 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by cyril » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:23 am

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:04 pm
]When was the last time Roma launched a genocide against the sub-humans?

I would say their classification of us a sub-humans is pretty accurate given our track record.
Just because the Rroma did not have the means to wipe out entire non-Rroma populations doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have done it if they had the chance. Rest assured, there is a strong disregard for the life, property and well-being of anyone non-Gypsy embedded in their culture. I could give you many examples, some of them being a bit hair-raising, but I am sure you will find a way to dismiss them all. I wonder, Grigoris, if you admire them so much, why don’t you just go and live with them for a while? Free spirits should get along just fine, after all. I could even arrange something for you :twisted: ; just don’t call me when things go South. As for myself, I was born and grew up in a small town where 20% of population was Rroma; I even picked up a bit of Rromani without even trying. So, trust me, I know very well what I am talking about.
The stuff Cyril quotes is exactly the sort of "facts" that were used to justify the Holocaust of the gypsies in WWII and various pogroms against them during European history.
On an empirical basis, I have reasons to believe that pogroms (or a good chunk of them) happen precisely when authorities in charge turn a blind eye to these facts or “facts” as you wish to call them. Two brief, small-scale examples so you can understand where I’m coming from:
1. It is 1974 and Eugen Grigore is a truck driver living nearby Iasi Citi, Romania and minding his own business. One day, while he is on the road, gypsies break into his house thinking that there was no one home; but his wife and three children were. The Gypsies kill them all and then set the house on fire. Eugen Grigore takes the legal route to prosecute the offenders but the investigation stalls because the authorities want to avoid an open conflict between Romanians and Gypsies. After two years of frustrated efforts, the guy gets behind the wheel of his 10-tonner and drives it into the Gypsy camp; 24 people are crushed beneath the wheels, men, women, children, most of them innocent.
2. It is 1993, Hadareni, Mures, Romania. Three Gypsies stab a Romanian to death following an altercation. The local police refuse to investigate. As a result, the Romanian and Magyar villagers set the Gypsy settlement on fire. 3 people are killed in the process, one of them being burned alive.

Got my point now? Peddle this they-are-entitled-to-see-us -as-Untermenschen-given-out-track-record nonsense to a high enough level of authority, ignore the facts and you have the perfect recipe to brew outbursts of violence of the finest kind.
I do believe our friend Cyril may be partial to essentialist holocaust invoking theories.
I do not support violence of any kind. I am just amazed by the extent people can be blinded by some ideology as to fully disregard the evidence from under their nose.
I wonder which European nation our friend Cyril comes from?
I am Romanian
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17682
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:35 am

cyril wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:23 am
Just because the Rroma did not have the means to wipe out entire non-Rroma populations doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have done it if they had the chance.
You are talking paranoid theory, I am talking fact.

Fact: Gypsies have never launched a Holocaust against Europeans.
On an empirical basis, I have reasons to believe that pogroms (or a good chunk of them) happen precisely when authorities in charge turn a blind eye to these facts or “facts” as you wish to call them. Two brief, small-scale examples so you can understand where I’m coming from:
1. It is 1974 and Eugen Grigore is a truck driver living nearby Iasi Citi, Romania and minding his own business. One day, while he is on the road, gypsies break into his house thinking that there was no one home; but his wife and three children were. The Gypsies kill them all and then set the house on fire. Eugen Grigore takes the legal route to prosecute the offenders but the investigation stalls because the authorities want to avoid an open conflict between Romanians and Gypsies. After two years of frustrated efforts, the guy gets behind the wheel of his 10-tonner and drives it into the Gypsy camp; 24 people are crushed beneath the wheels, men, women, children, most of them innocent.
2. It is 1993, Hadareni, Mures, Romania. Three Gypsies stab a Romanian to death following an altercation. The local police refuse to investigate. As a result, the Romanian and Magyar villagers set the Gypsy settlement on fire. 3 people are killed in the process, one of them being burned alive.
So you feel the actions of the Romanian murderers was justified? Because I do not believe that the actions of the Gypsies was justified.
I do not support violence of any kind.
I do.
I am just amazed by the extent people can be blinded by some ideology as to fully disregard the evidence from under their nose.
melong.jpeg
melong.jpeg (33.32 KiB) Viewed 427 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
cyril
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:47 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by cyril » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:24 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:35 am
So you feel the actions of the Romanian murderers was justified? Because I do not believe that the actions of the Gypsies was justified.
I feel you missed my point. I feel that such tragedies could have been easily avoided if those in charge called a spade a spade and chose not to ignore the “facts”. I also feel that the unfortunate rise of the alt-right we are currently witnessing is a direct result of the irresponsible leftist policies you appear to advocate, Grigoris. I was talking simply about cause and effect, without endorsing anyone's actions.
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 7037
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Astus » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:31 pm

The current issue of the 'migrants' looks very much like the same old racist and antisemitic fear mongering. It is unfortunate if the Dalai Lama has little understanding of what slogans like 'X-land belongs to X-people' means to the majority.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

amanitamusc
Posts: 1334
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:30 pm

Astus wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:31 pm
The current issue of the 'migrants' looks very much like the same old racist and antisemitic fear mongering. It is unfortunate if the Dalai Lama has little understanding of what slogans like 'X-land belongs to X-people' means to the majority.
Racists will ride the coat tails of anyone or anything that furthers their
racist views.

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6130
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Queequeg » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 am
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:38 pm
Oh Christ. It's one thing to condemn genocide. It's another to read superior judgment into the terms of their language.
Don't get your knickers in a knot. It's called hyperbole. I am going to push as hard as I can when I am pushed, so that hopefully it will lead to a mutually beneficial position.

The stuff Cyril quotes is exactly the sort of "facts" that were used to justify the Holocaust of the gypsies in WWII and various pogroms against them during European history.

Actually, if there is a single characteristic that Europeans share it is probably the hatred of minority groups. But then again: that is not a specifically European trait.
Gotcha. Not on board with the strategy but agree with the intent. A little hyperbole on my part, too. :smile:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17682
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:06 pm

cyril wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:24 pm
I feel you missed my point. I feel that such tragedies could have been easily avoided if those in charge called a spade a spade and chose not to ignore the “facts”. I also feel that the unfortunate rise of the alt-right we are currently witnessing is a direct result of the irresponsible leftist policies you appear to advocate, Grigoris. I was talking simply about cause and effect, without endorsing anyone's actions.
The rise of the Far-Right is due to a small group of complete knob-ends taking advantage of people's unfounded fear and ignorance, for their political advantage.

Poland only hosts 11,703* refugees yet has a Far-Right government.
Hungary only hosts 4,691* refugees yet has a Far-Right government.

So you are from Romania, right?

Romania hosts 2,800* refugees.

Romanian society and culture is so weak, that it's "European values" are threatened by 2,800 refugees?

The island of Lesbos where I live (an island with a total population of approximately 80,000), currently hosts 10,000 asylum seekers. Greece hosts 46,380* refugees. Lesbian (I know, it sounds "naughty", but the word actually comes from the name of the island) culture and society survived 500 years of Ottoman occupation. It will survive hosting 10,000 refugees.

And the only "serious" glitches occur when the extraordinarily small population of Far-Right knob-ends decides to jump up and down and gibber like the primates that they are. Otherwise things roll along VERY smoothly.

*Figures are from 2016 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sm.POP.REFG
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

amanitamusc
Posts: 1334
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:15 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:06 pm
cyril wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:24 pm
I feel you missed my point. I feel that such tragedies could have been easily avoided if those in charge called a spade a spade and chose not to ignore the “facts”. I also feel that the unfortunate rise of the alt-right we are currently witnessing is a direct result of the irresponsible leftist policies you appear to advocate, Grigoris. I was talking simply about cause and effect, without endorsing anyone's actions.
The rise of the Far-Right is due to a small group of complete knob-ends taking advantage of people's unfounded fear and ignorance, for their political advantage.

Poland only hosts 11,703* refugees yet has a Far-Right government.
Hungary only hosts 4,691* refugees yet has a Far-Right government.

So you are from Romania, right?

Romania hosts 2,800* refugees.

Romanian society and culture is so weak, that it's "European values" are threatened by 2,800 refugees?

The island of Lesbos where I live (an island with a total population of approximately 80,000), currently hosts 10,000 asylum seekers. Greece hosts 46,380* refugees. Lesbian (I know, it sounds "naughty", but the word actually comes from the name of the island) culture and society survived 500 years of Ottoman occupation. It will survive hosting 10,000 refugees.

And the only "serious" glitches occur when the extraordinarily small population of Far-Right knob-ends decides to jump up and down and gibber like the primates that they are. Otherwise things roll along VERY smoothly.

*Figures are from 2016 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sm.POP.REFG
Ah Greg i always new you were a lesbian trapped in a mans body. :tongue:

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28280
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Malcolm » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:44 pm

Astus wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:31 pm
The current issue of the 'migrants' looks very much like the same old racist and antisemitic fear mongering. It is unfortunate if the Dalai Lama has little understanding of what slogans like 'X-land belongs to X-people' means to the majority.
:good:
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 6992
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Ayu » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:13 pm

If nobody added this comment from Tenzin Peljor yet, I'd like to provide it.
[Source: https://www.facebook.com/peljortenzin?_ ... %22%3A0%7D ]
I’ve seen and heard several times right wing people quoting the Dalai Lama. However, context matters. The Dalai Lama speaks as a refugee himself who wants to return to his country, Tibet, which has been illegally occupied and colonialised by China. Moreover, he fears a so called cultural genocide in Tibet, where a mass immigration of the Chinese to Tibet is seen by him as the biggest threat to his nation's identity, potentially reducing the Tibetans to an insignificant minority. Interestingly, Sputnik gives some context and quotes an academic expert. In all his statements the Dalai Lama has praised, encouraged or asked for helping refugees and (at least in one statement he added) if they stay longer to provide them with good education.
It is a comment on this article:
https://sputniknews.com/viral/201809141 ... -refugees/
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17682
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dalai Lama says 'Europe belongs to Europeans'

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:34 pm

And on that note...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Locked

Return to “News & Current Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: conebeckham, Fa Dao, Jeff H, lupo, practitioner and 41 guests