Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

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如傑優婆塞
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Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by 如傑優婆塞 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:25 am

The Dalai Lama is meeting victims of sexual abuse by Buddhist teachers during his visit to the Netherlands, broadcaster NOS reports. More here

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如傑優婆塞
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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by 如傑優婆塞 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pm

Update: Dalai Lama admits he knew about Buddhist teachers' sexual abuse: The Tibetan spiritual leader told Dutch TV he has known about the sex crimes in Europe since the 1990s. He was presented with written accounts from 12 alleged victims from Belgium and the Netherlands.
More here

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by smcj » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:00 pm

In Sogyal’s case it was public knowledge. He was successfully sued for it in the ‘90s. What has changed recently is our societal response to it.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Queequeg » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:11 am

smcj wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:00 pm
In Sogyal’s case it was public knowledge. He was successfully sued for it in the ‘90s. What has changed recently is our societal response to it.
Its about time.

Get these creeps out of here. So what, like a trained dog, they can rap about the illusions of self and regurgitate 2500 years of Buddhist philosophy. This avatar/reappearance racket just causes people to go stupid.

A creep is a creep.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:37 am

I've mentioned before that there has been a 'Royal Commision' in Australia into institutional responses to child sex abuse (see here. Royal Commissions of enquiry have strong powers of coercion and leave no stone unturned.) There were sexual offenders in all kinds of religious orders, as well as the Scouts and many other organisations. So I have no reason to believe that Buddhist organisations would necessarily be above these behaviours, although it's a painful thing to have to acknowledge. But at least now with this enquiry and the social revulsion that has been triggered by MeToo, the light is being shone on it and these wounds are being painfully cauterized.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Virgo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:51 am

如傑優婆塞 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:25 am
The Dalai Lama is meeting victims of sexual abuse by Buddhist teachers during his visit to the Netherlands, broadcaster NOS reports. More here


Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by smcj » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:58 am


Get these creeps out of here. So what, like a trained dog, they can rap about the illusions of self and regurgitate 2500 years of Buddhist philosophy. This avatar/reappearance racket just causes people to go stupid.

A creep is a creep.
I’d like to add an epilogue to the Lama Norlha drama.

Before he died we had gotten permission from the county to keep his body for three days. After that his body was picked up and driven straight to the crematorium. The entire group went to the crematorium with him and chanted prayers as the cremation started. Then after a while we all went back to the monastery and the chanting continued in the shrine room.

Since I don’t understand Tibetan I opted to go downstairs and do some work in the lunch room instead. After a while the cook for the men’s retreat starts banging on the glass doors and motioning to come out. He pointed to the sky and after a moment I saw the rainbow above the shrine room. It wasn’t very bright or very big, but it was there. I took a photo and sent a group text for everybody to come out. Everybody had their phones off so nobody came out. A couple minutes later it went away, so basically just the cook and I saw that one in person.

49 days after LN’s death HH Karmapa came to help conclude the series of prayers. There were no rainbows that day. But the next day, which was day 50 (or the end of day 49?) there was a big bright rainbow in a full circle around the sun. And unlike the first one it lasted all day. Photos of both are on FB.

So although on-time rainbows (well, almost on time) are not as persuasive as an actual rainbow body, if you understand Tibetan culture you’ll understand that these are indicators of a great master passing. Situ R was shown the photos and confirmed they were what the texts describing this phenomenon are talking about.

I do not excuse Lama Norlha’s behaviors. I feel sympathy for the offended women. However I offer this anecdote as an opportunity for those who do not wish to see LN in a completely negative light to have a reason to feel good about him.

But of course, anybody that simply wants to condemn him certainly can do that also.

Just sayin’...

:focus:
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Aryjna » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:52 am

smcj wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:58 am

Get these creeps out of here. So what, like a trained dog, they can rap about the illusions of self and regurgitate 2500 years of Buddhist philosophy. This avatar/reappearance racket just causes people to go stupid.

A creep is a creep.
I’d like to add an epilogue to the Lama Norlha drama.

Before he died we had gotten permission from the county to keep his body for three days. After that his body was picked up and driven straight to the crematorium. The entire group went to the crematorium with him and chanted prayers as the cremation started. Then after a while we all went back to the monastery and the chanting continued in the shrine room.

Since I don’t understand Tibetan I opted to go downstairs and do some work in the lunch room instead. After a while the cook for the men’s retreat starts banging on the glass doors and motioning to come out. He pointed to the sky and after a moment I saw the rainbow above the shrine room. It wasn’t very bright or very big, but it was there. I took a photo and sent a group text for everybody to come out. Everybody had their phones off so nobody came out. A couple minutes later it went away, so basically just the cook and I saw that one in person.

49 days after LN’s death HH Karmapa came to help conclude the series of prayers. There were no rainbows that day. But the next day, which was day 50 (or the end of day 49?) there was a big bright rainbow in a full circle around the sun. And unlike the first one it lasted all day. Photos of both are on FB.

So although on-time rainbows (well, almost on time) are not as persuasive as an actual rainbow body, if you understand Tibetan culture you’ll understand that these are indicators of a great master passing. Situ R was shown the photos and confirmed they were what the texts describing this phenomenon are talking about.

I do not excuse Lama Norlha’s behaviors. I feel sympathy for the offended women. However I offer this anecdote as an opportunity for those who do not wish to see LN in a completely negative light to have a reason to feel good about him.

But of course, anybody that simply wants to condemn him certainly can do that also.

Just sayin’...

:focus:
Can you link the circular rainbow picture? I don't think I've seen one before.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by shaunc » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:09 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:37 am
I've mentioned before that there has been a 'Royal Commision' in Australia into institutional responses to child sex abuse (see here. Royal Commissions of enquiry have strong powers of coercion and leave no stone unturned.) There were sexual offenders in all kinds of religious orders, as well as the Scouts and many other organisations. So I have no reason to believe that Buddhist organisations would necessarily be above these behaviours, although it's a painful thing to have to acknowledge. But at least now with this enquiry and the social revulsion that has been triggered by MeToo, the light is being shone on it and these wounds are being painfully cauterized.
In my opinion there's a substantial difference between child sex abuse and a priest/monk having sex with an adult.
Although I find it quite unsavory I don't believe any laws were broken.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by smcj » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:41 am

Can you link the circular rainbow picture? I don't think I've seen one before.
I don’t remember how to upload from my iPhone. It should be on the Kagyu Thubten Choling Facebook page.

He passed away in Feb. so the circular rainbow should be in April.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Simon E. » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am

So lets be clear.
A claim is being made that convincing allegations of sexual predation are obviated if we cite the appearance of a common meteorological phenomenon?
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Aryjna » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:48 am

smcj wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:41 am
Can you link the circular rainbow picture? I don't think I've seen one before.
I don’t remember how to upload from my iPhone. It should be on the Kagyu Thubten Choling Facebook page.

He passed away in Feb. so the circular rainbow should be in April.
Thanks

Image
Image

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Simon E. » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:53 am

Yes. Thats another common meteorological phenomenon that occurs when the moisture in the air reaches a particular density and the Sun's rays are at a particular angle.
If the photographer had been standing in the same position relative to a public toilet the halo would have been the same.

As Situ Rinpoche said, 'beware of being so open minded that your brain falls out'.
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Aryjna » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:12 am

Simon E. wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:53 am
Yes. Thats another common meteorological phenomenon that occurs when the moisture in the air reaches a particular density and the Sun's rays are at a particular angle.
If the photographer had been standing in the same position relative to a public toilet the halo would have been the same.

As Situ Rinpoche said, 'beware of being so open minded that your brain falls out'.
:D I don't think anyone is saying the rainbow negates sexual abuse here. Personally, I wanted to see the rainbow, I don't know anything about this particular situation.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Simon E. » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:58 pm

The point I am making is that the appearance of phenomena associated with particular teachers even when genuine does not mean that the behaviour of those teachers is above reproach or scrutiny.
I have it on good authority that the founder of a particularly problematic Vajrayana cult not to be mentioned on this forum, has undoubted siddhis. Possibly as a RESULT of the dark practices the cult advocates.
I am not comparing the two cases.
Just urging caution in seeing phenomena as proof of authentic Dharma.
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by kirtu » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:25 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
So lets be clear.
A claim is being made that convincing allegations of sexual predation are obviated if we cite the appearance of a common meteorological phenomenon?
No, that's not the assertion.

Kirt
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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by Simon E. » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:56 pm

Ok.
So what is being asserted?
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:18 pm

With social media so real and available these days all it takes is one rumor to destroy
someones career,credentials and there is always someone to jump on the wagon while
avoiding all legal realms.
Social media does more harm than good? We will see.
One thing social media provides is the worlds greatest soap opera.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by smcj » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:21 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
So lets be clear.
A claim is being made that convincing allegations of sexual predation are obviated if we cite the appearance of a common meteorological phenomenon?
“Obviated”? (Synonyms: preclude, prevent, remove, get rid of, do away with, get around, rule out, eliminate, make/render unnecessary)

I said:
I do not excuse Lama Norlha’s behaviors. I feel sympathy for the offended women.
I also said:
But of course, anybody that simply wants to condemn Lama Norlha certainly can do that also.
I don’t think that “obviates” the lama drama.

If I am “obviating” anything it would be the necessity of casting Lama Norlha in the role of “villain”:
However I offer this anecdote as an opportunity for those who do not wish to see LN in a completely negative light to have a reason to feel good about him.
For those people who had samaya with Lama Norlha, and who took that samaya seriously, these kinds of auspicious signs can be supportive for keeping their samaya. This more than just Tibetan culture. I’m told these auspicious signs at these specific times are spelled out in the texts.

Coincidence? Maybe. But then again, maybe not...

For anyone else that did not have samaya with him the point is moot. There are no karmic implications to how you view him.

And of course for other people that reject the more magical aspects of the Vajrayana it can be dismissed as random chance. It’s a matter of personal perspective. People are free to make as much or as little of it as they want.
Last edited by smcj on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:14 pm, edited 5 times in total.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama, visiting the Netherlands, gets tough with abusers

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:44 pm

I truly hope HHDL is covered!
Who would want to put an abuse allegation on him?Many from China and a fake lineage.
They would easily start it on social media.We will see.

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