Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

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Queequeg
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:32 pm

Also to add, our democracy works when there are lots of dynamic forces at work. Right now, we have a minority wielding overwhelming power. A milquetoast Dem president at least shifts the conversation and opens up for other voices to be heard.

US democracy is raucous and ugly with lots of wheeling and dealing when its really working. We need to remember that.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:32 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:26 pm


I think we fundamentally agree here - look above, by no means do I think Amazon shouldn't be criticized. As you allude, Amazon is basically E-Walmart. Walmart is doing the same thing to their ground level workforce as Amazon - paying them as little as possible and effectively getting social safety nets to subsidize the work force. This was one of the things I was saying is bigger than Amazon. The solution to that problem is collective bargaining which I am fully aware of that Amazon is rabidly against.

Until labor is willing to fight Pinkertons in the street and vote for militant labor representatives on election day, things are not going to change for the lower end of the economic spectrum.

At the same time, it seems too limiting to not acknowledge Bezos' genius and consider what he might do if we could be assured he could put aside his business interests and be be devoted to the commonwealth.

Ok, we're on the same page there, but i'm not sure his "genius" means anything but efficiency in terms of profit, I don't really think that is problem with our political system. It can be very efficient - when it wants to, and when it benefits the right people.

Like I wrote above, "check enough boxes".

There are no cakravartins or philosopher kings to choose from. Just the usual suspects.

I actually believe that there are guys/gals who have the management capabilities and the ability to be bigger than themselves when called to public service.
I do too, I just think that most of them aren't in power, and are actively blocked from getting there.
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:07 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:32 pm
Ok, we're on the same page there, but i'm not sure his "genius" means anything but efficiency in terms of profit, I don't really think that is problem with our political system. It can be very efficient - when it wants to, and when it benefits the right people.
That's the question - how do we want it to be efficient.

Bloomberg - When he came to office, the economy in NYC was starting to roll, but city bureaucracy was a major problem with all kinds of inefficiencies that benefited no one but... I guess the clerks at the various government offices who could get away with doing nothing until their pension kicked in?

His administration went through everything and reevaluated application processes, work flows, etc. And all of a sudden, things started moving more smoothly and people could get things done. Now, its remarkably easy to navigate city bureaucracy, though De Blasio does not have the same skills and is letting things go down hill a little. New problems emerged - particularly issues of affordability. As the City became an attractive place to live, more people wanted to live here, and drove RE prices up. That has raised problems with gentrification and displacement.

If its not one problem, its another. We just keep dealing with them - that's life.

There is no question the federal government needs some reorganizing because it is incredibly inefficient and wasteful. I don't trust ideological Republicans to do that. I would much rather someone like Bloomberg who's mind is at least unquestionably civic minded, though definitely refracted through the lens of a rich and powerful CEO.

Bezos basically does the same thing and blows up industry after industry. I would love to see him take his approach to Washington bureaucracies.

The litmus test for me would be whether they are sincerely civic minded. At least someone like that, they're on the level and understand that criticism is part of the give and take system. At least someone like that you know its possible to find areas of flexibility while we also want them to stand pat on issues. We may not agree with them, but if they do it civilly and civically, what more can we ask for really?

One thing we need is just a deliberate return to democratic processes. Right now we are so screwed up, we just need someone who is committed to democracy - that's how low the bar is right now...
I do too, I just think that most of them aren't in power, and are actively blocked from getting there.
Blocked or just not interested. Why put yourself through that process of running?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:18 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:07 pm

The litmus test for me would be whether they are sincerely civic minded. At least someone like that, they're on the level and understand that criticism is part of the give and take system. At least someone like that you know its possible to find areas of flexibility while we also want them to stand pat on issues. We may not agree with them, but if they do it civilly and civically, what more can we ask for really?
I feel like Bezos has already shown that he is definitely -not- civic minded, at least not by my definition.
One thing we need is just a deliberate return to democratic processes. Right now we are so screwed up, we just need someone who is committed to democracy - that's how low the bar is right now...
The growth of corporate monopolies, gutting of the public sector etc. that has happened at least since Clinton-era neoloberalism has been one of the driving forces in removing democracy from the table, we have become consumers before we are citizens. If anything people like Bezos and Bloomberg represent just that consensus, so I wouldn't trust them to do anything but make it worse..regardless of whether or not some of their business acumen might improve public sector workflows or whatever. I'm sure they'd love to have more "public private partnerships" and other such "efficiency" improvements that (not) coincidentally evaporate middle class jobs and sell off more of the commons to the highest bidder, too. It seems to me that voting in elite Technocrats is the exact opposite of what would restore democracy.
Blocked or just not interested. Why put yourself through that process of running?
Blocked, again, the gutting of the public sector that's happened, the sharp decline in unions, some of it is just happenstance, and some of it most definitely is not. The consensus is deeply corporate, across the board, it favors an implicit idea of "efficient capitalism" as "efficient (good) government", and I personally reject the idea that those are similar, and in many cases I think they are in opposition.
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:33 pm

Sigh. All good points.

Here's the thing. I don't think there are any feasible alternatives. Scaling up is the trend across the globe. Its the tendency built into the technologies we have adopted - there is no going back to the pre-digital absent some catastrophic collapse, in which case all bets are off.

What we can do is work with this to make it work for as many as people as possible, and that's a lot easier than changing direction.

Andrew Carnegie, I believe, was asked why he built libraries instead of just paying his workers more. He cynically said something along the lines that his employees would just blow the extra money. That is on one hand an awful sentiment. Its paternalistic and cruel on a personal level. Many of those libraries, though, are still around and have benefited generation after generation.

Maybe we just resolve that workers will be subsidized by social programs. Take healthcare off the private side of the ledger and put it on the public side - that's universal healthcare. Then people don't have to stay in crappy jobs just to keep insurance. They can maybe take a risk and try to start a business. And that same principal should be applied across the board - take burdens off the individual side, collectivize it, and open up opportunities to take risks. How many of the "best and brightest" are locked up paying off student loans? Take that off the individual side...

I actually think a lot of businesses would agree with these principals, and more would if immigration were tightened up and companies were forced to develop the domestic work force.

Ideally, that's what we need to do - create common interests between capital and labor...
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by conebeckham » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:25 pm

Nemo wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:53 am
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:43 pm
Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:59 am
Bernie is a terrific person but clearly too far to the left to be a realistic prospect.
You know this world is done for when health care, infrastructure and education are considered left wing...
It also shows a very profound ignorance of basic economics. When you weed out the noise from credit cycles the real source of long term growth is increasing productivity. The easiest way to do that is to tax stagnant money from the rich and invest in infrastructure, education and health care. American politics is is two flavors of pablum fed to morons.

I don't disagree, except to note that often increased productivity means less money for the worker; more work, likely more workers as well, but the same amount, or less, pay to workers. Doesn't have to be that way, but it's kind of an "Econ Textbook" definition......
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by PeterC » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:53 am

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:37 pm
PeterC wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:48 am
A presidential win in 2020 will need an outsider - someone not currently in politics. The anti-Trump, if you like. But not Oprah, that would be a complete disaster.
I'm ambivalent, only because he doesn't stoke any enthusiasm and he's a from the Master of the Universe/Davos class - Michael Bloomberg.

He's rational, he knows how to get large, chaotic institutions moving efficiently (what he did with NYC bureaucracy is truly amazing - he tamed it and made it civil and polite), he understands the issues and is eminently practical. He brings an MBA type management skills to government. Unlike Trump, he is a real business man who built a very large organization that functions very, very well. The drawback is he's a Davos crowd liberal and fundamentally believes in supply side economics. A debate between him and Trump would be very entertaining. Bloomberg is part of the NYC elite crowd that looks down their noses at Trump and sees him for the clown he is. Bloomberg is richer than Trump and when Trump tries to talk about how great deal maker he is, Bloomberg will be able to skewer him about deal making.

Another possibility is Michael Avenatti... the guy is a bull dog and when Trump tries his twitter tirades, Avenatti is quick enough and malicious enough to go after him and embarrass him. We'd all get dragged into the gutter if it came down to those two guys.

Personally, I'd vote for the Rock. Because, why not? Professional wrestler turned blockbuster movie star. He's got the common touch and able to talk to regular people because that's the stock he comes from. If all else fails, he can body slam Trump and smash a chair over his head.
Bloomberg could probably beat Trump. Trump won by less than a hundred thousand people in three counties and lost the popular vote. You only need a small swing, and red states are a lost cause anyway. Someone like Bloomberg could, with the right positioning, do it.

Bezos could too, just about. He’s not that great at the PR - and he’s a very private individual, for good reasons. The Rock definitively could. The Rock has a really impressive rags-to-riches story, he’s actually pretty clever, has an incredible work ethic, and he’s a showman. Aside from that, he’s a very decent person who does a lot of charity work.

I have no idea why, though, someone like Bezos or Dwayne Johnson would want to be president. It doesn’t pay, the job doesn’t bring that much power, and it makes your life hell unless you are a chronic amoral narcissist.

A respectable ex-military figure would also work, though they tend to go Republican. Colin Powell was, in terms of political positions, a very liberal person: however he affiliated with the republicans because he felt they “did a better job of protecting the country” (a belief I would dispute).

Really there’s no shortage of good candidates. However when you exclude those who wouldn’t want the job, and those who wouldn’t be acceptable to the democrat caucus, you end up with people like Warren who will only lose.

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:16 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:25 pm
Nemo wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:53 am
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:43 pm
You know this world is done for when health care, infrastructure and education are considered left wing...
It also shows a very profound ignorance of basic economics. When you weed out the noise from credit cycles the real source of long term growth is increasing productivity. The easiest way to do that is to tax stagnant money from the rich and invest in infrastructure, education and health care. American politics is is two flavors of pablum fed to morons.

I don't disagree, except to note that often increased productivity means less money for the worker; more work, likely more workers as well, but the same amount, or less, pay to workers. Doesn't have to be that way, but it's kind of an "Econ Textbook" definition......
Fixing immigration addresses "more workers". Limiting the labor pool creates an artificial scarcity that would inure to the benefit of labor.

That also sets the stage for improving the social welfare programs... These programs simply cannot be for all comers - there is a limit to resources, and preferences must be made. I'd start with citizens and go from there. Since it's not practical or humane to turn people away at a hospital, that enforcement unfortunately has to happen at the border and other points of entry. That's probably not going to be welcome notion to many but politically, that's where the country really is. It can be done civilly, but will need to include reasonable guest worker provisions and options for citizenship for long time residents who have played by the rules except for legal entry.

Open borders are simply not an option.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Fa Dao » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:23 pm

PeterC wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:53 am
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:37 pm
PeterC wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:48 am
A presidential win in 2020 will need an outsider - someone not currently in politics. The anti-Trump, if you like. But not Oprah, that would be a complete disaster.
I'm ambivalent, only because he doesn't stoke any enthusiasm and he's a from the Master of the Universe/Davos class - Michael Bloomberg.

He's rational, he knows how to get large, chaotic institutions moving efficiently (what he did with NYC bureaucracy is truly amazing - he tamed it and made it civil and polite), he understands the issues and is eminently practical. He brings an MBA type management skills to government. Unlike Trump, he is a real business man who built a very large organization that functions very, very well. The drawback is he's a Davos crowd liberal and fundamentally believes in supply side economics. A debate between him and Trump would be very entertaining. Bloomberg is part of the NYC elite crowd that looks down their noses at Trump and sees him for the clown he is. Bloomberg is richer than Trump and when Trump tries to talk about how great deal maker he is, Bloomberg will be able to skewer him about deal making.

Another possibility is Michael Avenatti... the guy is a bull dog and when Trump tries his twitter tirades, Avenatti is quick enough and malicious enough to go after him and embarrass him. We'd all get dragged into the gutter if it came down to those two guys.

Personally, I'd vote for the Rock. Because, why not? Professional wrestler turned blockbuster movie star. He's got the common touch and able to talk to regular people because that's the stock he comes from. If all else fails, he can body slam Trump and smash a chair over his head.
Bloomberg could probably beat Trump. Trump won by less than a hundred thousand people in three counties and lost the popular vote. You only need a small swing, and red states are a lost cause anyway. Someone like Bloomberg could, with the right positioning, do it.

Bezos could too, just about. He’s not that great at the PR - and he’s a very private individual, for good reasons. The Rock definitively could. The Rock has a really impressive rags-to-riches story, he’s actually pretty clever, has an incredible work ethic, and he’s a showman. Aside from that, he’s a very decent person who does a lot of charity work.

I have no idea why, though, someone like Bezos or Dwayne Johnson would want to be president. It doesn’t pay, the job doesn’t bring that much power, and it makes your life hell unless you are a chronic amoral narcissist.

A respectable ex-military figure would also work, though they tend to go Republican. Colin Powell was, in terms of political positions, a very liberal person: however he affiliated with the republicans because he felt they “did a better job of protecting the country” (a belief I would dispute).

Really there’s no shortage of good candidates. However when you exclude those who wouldn’t want the job, and those who wouldn’t be acceptable to the democrat caucus, you end up with people like Warren who will only lose.
Actually if you're going by counties Trump won approximately 2,600 counties to Clinton’s 500 with 304 electoral votes to her 227, but losing the popular vote by almost 3 million. Many are now saying that we need to abolish the electoral college and go by the popular vote. The problem with this is that California, New York, and Texas would decide all future election...the rest of the country may as well not even vote at all. This is why the electoral college was established in the first place to give each state a voice. Up until this point (not including Bush/Gore) the electoral college has served the US well. And no...I did NOT vote for Trump, I voted for Bernie...but people need to face up to the facts and if they don't like things the way they are come up with a better platform than "Trump is (fill in the blank) evil, racist, mysoginistic, homophobic etc etc. as well as come up with a better candidate than Hillary.
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Malcolm » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:20 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:16 pm


Open borders are simply not an option.
Wow, Trump really did win. Sad!
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Malcolm » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:02 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:23 pm

Actually if you're going by counties Trump won approximately 2,600 counties to Clinton’s 500 with 304 electoral votes to her 227, but losing the popular vote by almost 3 million. Many are now saying that we need to abolish the electoral college and go by the popular vote. The problem with this is that California, New York, and Texas would decide all future election...the rest of the country may as well not even vote at all. This is why the electoral college was established in the first place to give each state a voice. Up until this point (not including Bush/Gore) the electoral college has served the US well. And no...I did NOT vote for Trump, I voted for Bernie...but people need to face up to the facts and if they don't like things the way they are come up with a better platform than "Trump is (fill in the blank) evil, racist, mysoginistic, homophobic etc etc. as well as come up with a better candidate than Hillary.
All the electoral college does is disenfranchise millions of voters, acting as a force multiplier for voters in small states like Wyoming. And frankly, having California and NY determine all future elections would not be a bad thing at all.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:20 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:16 pm


Open borders are simply not an option.
Wow, Trump really did win. Sad!
Its a mistake to give Republicans all the ground on fixing immigration. "No" is not a workable policy. Immigration has been a problem needing fixing for over 2 decades. The issue has been forced. Let's deal with it.

Or are you actually suggesting that "Abolish ICE" is a feasible policy?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:02 pm
All the electoral college does is disenfranchise millions of voters, acting as a force multiplier for voters in small states like Wyoming. And frankly, having California and NY determine all future elections would not be a bad thing at all.
As a New Yorker, I like this message. My national vote would actually have value! Maybe Republicans would have to adjust their strategy and deal with actual problems instead of this pining for Antebellum fantasy. That said, we don't want urban areas completely dictating the agenda.

The more immediate and more subtle fix might be doing something about the ridiculous gerrymandering that goes on.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Malcolm
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Malcolm » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:54 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:20 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:16 pm


Open borders are simply not an option.
Wow, Trump really did win. Sad!
Its a mistake to give Republicans all the ground on fixing immigration. "No" is not a workable policy. Immigration has been a problem needing fixing for over 2 decades. The issue has been forced. Let's deal with it.

Or are you actually suggesting that "Abolish ICE" is a feasible policy?
Let's just deal with reality for a change and understand that North America is one economic block. United, it would very, very powerful. No chance China would outcompete the United States of North America.

The present immigration issue is non-issue.
Last edited by Malcolm on Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:55 pm

PeterC wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:53 am
I have no idea why, though, someone like Bezos or Dwayne Johnson would want to be president. It doesn’t pay, the job doesn’t bring that much power, and it makes your life hell unless you are a chronic amoral narcissist.

For the same reason Bloomberg ran for mayor - civic duty.
A respectable ex-military figure would also work, though they tend to go Republican. Colin Powell was, in terms of political positions, a very liberal person: however he affiliated with the republicans because he felt they “did a better job of protecting the country” (a belief I would dispute).
How about Mattis? In a debate with Trump he'd be able to voice some of the thoughts that flashed across his face when they had that public cabinet meeting and all those secretaries were groveling and genuflecting toward Trump. LOL
Really there’s no shortage of good candidates. However when you exclude those who wouldn’t want the job, and those who wouldn’t be acceptable to the democrat caucus, you end up with people like Warren who will only lose.
Or Booker, or Harris, or Gillenbrand. Ugh.

I'd vote for Cuomo. I like the way he uses his brass knuckles. Debate with Trump would be a Queens grudge match, though, that would only play to Trump's game. I think the debate would have to be with a grown up who means business... or a Jewish grand father who can cause a bout of shame with stern look... Bernie

Tulsi Gabbert... though she's too young and the Hare Krishna background will bite her.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Malcolm » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:58 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:55 pm
PeterC wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:53 am
I have no idea why, though, someone like Bezos or Dwayne Johnson would want to be president. It doesn’t pay, the job doesn’t bring that much power, and it makes your life hell unless you are a chronic amoral narcissist.

For the same reason Bloomberg ran for mayor - civic duty.



How about Mattis? In a debate with Trump he'd be able to voice some of the thoughts that flashed across his face when they had that public cabinet meeting and all those secretaries were groveling and genuflecting toward Trump. LOL
Really there’s no shortage of good candidates. However when you exclude those who wouldn’t want the job, and those who wouldn’t be acceptable to the democrat caucus, you end up with people like Warren who will only lose.
Or Booker, or Harris, or Gillenbrand. Ugh.

I'd vote for Cuomo. I like the way he uses his brass knuckles. Debate with Trump would be a Queens grudge match, though, that would only play to Trump's game. I think the debate would have to be with a grown up who means business... or a Jewish grand father who can cause a bout of shame with stern look... Bernie

Tulsi Gabbert... though she's too young and the Hare Krishna background will bite her.
I'd vote for anyone who can get this mother*&^%#$ out of the Whitehouse.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Queequeg
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:59 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:54 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:20 pm


Wow, Trump really did win. Sad!
Its a mistake to give Republicans all the ground on fixing immigration. "No" is not a workable policy. Immigration has been a problem needing fixing for over 2 decades. The issue has been forced. Let's deal with it.

Or are you actually suggesting that "Abolish ICE" is a feasible policy?
Let's just deal with reality for a change and understand that North America is one economic block. United, it would very, very powerful. No chance China would outcompete the United States of North America.
That's a different story. The economic disparity North and South of the border is still too wide for fuller integration, but I agree that should be the long term goal. Mexico would need to be on board with that. I don't think Mexico can make up its mind how close they want to be with the US. They've been scared of Americans coming across the border and taking over for over a century and it still colors their policy. They also need to get control of the country.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Nemo
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Location: Canada

Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Nemo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:20 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:16 pm


Open borders are simply not an option.
Wow, Trump really did win. Sad!
Your opinion is very American and indicative of your unsophisticated political options. In Canada when I was younger our immigration was a policy of tap on/tap off. Every January our department of labour would do a labour market study and then inform parliament to tailor immigration to current economic conditions. If there was a skills shortage that area could be opened up. If students could not find summer jobs it could be tightened. If employers were exploiting skilled immigrants the tap was turned off. So the immigrants from that time found employment in their area of expertise and became incredibly successful. Employers could not trap PhD's in jobs driving cabs and making fast food. Students and the lower class would get training and could find work easily instead of competing with doctoral degree foreigners. When I was 16 during the last tap off period I could find a job in 3 hours. Tap on all the time is neoliberalism and only benefits the rich. Tap off is perhaps unrealistic with our aging populations without massive automation and wealth redistribution. To think it is either/or permanently is a level of oversimplification that does more harm than good.

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Queequeg
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Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:02 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:58 pm
I'd vote for anyone who can get this mother*&^%#$ out of the Whitehouse.
That's the question... Who? We can't let establishment Democrats choose the candidate. It will be Clinton again.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Posts: 6398
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Democrats are compulsive self mutilators

Post by Queequeg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:43 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:01 pm
In Canada when I was younger our immigration was a policy of tap on/tap off. Every January our department of labour would do a labour market study and then inform parliament to tailor immigration to current economic conditions. If there was a skills shortage that area could be opened up. If students could not find summer jobs it could be tightened. If employers were exploiting skilled immigrants the tap was turned off. So the immigrants from that time found employment in their area of expertise and became incredibly successful. Employers could not trap PhD's in jobs driving cabs and making fast food. Students and the lower class would get training and could find work easily instead of competing with doctoral degree foreigners. When I was 16 during the last tap off period I could find a job in 3 hours. Tap on all the time is neoliberalism and only benefits the rich. Tap off is perhaps unrealistic with our aging populations without massive automation and wealth redistribution. To think it is either/or permanently is a level of oversimplification that does more harm than good.
Holy moly. That just makes too much sense.

Scaling it up for the US might require that those reports be bi-annual, but that sounds great.

Does Canada not do it that way anymore?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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