Another day in America

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DNS
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Another day in America

Post by DNS » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:27 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/us/thous ... index.html
The gunman used a Glock 21 .45-caliber handgun designed to hold 10 rounds plus one in the chamber, but the gun had an extended magazine, the sheriff said. Investigators didn't immediately know how many rounds the magazine could hold, he said.
I believe California has a law against firearms with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. The shooter was a former Marine.

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Re: Another day in America

Post by ford_truckin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:38 pm

Powerful handgun.

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Re: Another day in America

Post by boda » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:35 pm

I read that he bought the extended magazine legally.

Before they stopped having a latin dance night at that club about a year ago, incidentally, my wife and I used to go there regularly for years.

Thousand Oaks has been rated as the fourth safest city in the US.
Last edited by boda on Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 pm

boda wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:35 pm
I read that he bought the extended magazine legally.

Before they stopped having a latin dance night at that club about a year ago, incidentally, my wife and I used to go their regularly for years.

Thousand Oaks has been rated as the fourth safest city in the US.
It probably still is. As horrible as these events are, and as much as action needs to be taken, changes need to be made, etc. etc., these are statistically rare events, and you are still more likely i'm sure to die any number of ways as a citizen of Thousand Oaks. I'm as saddened and dismayed as anyone else, but I think it's important not to paint a narrative that is more linked to media coverage than facts on the ground. Something like this happening in your city is deeply tragic, and an indicator of seriously problems in our country period, but it does not change the fact that day to day most people are fairly safe. Cities recover from terrible things, even things like this.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Re: Another day in America

Post by boda » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:24 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 pm
boda wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:35 pm
I read that he bought the extended magazine legally.

Before they stopped having a latin dance night at that club about a year ago, incidentally, my wife and I used to go their regularly for years.

Thousand Oaks has been rated as the fourth safest city in the US.
It probably still is. As horrible as these events are, and as much as action needs to be taken, changes need to be made, etc. etc., these are statistically rare events, and you are still more likely i'm sure to die any number of ways as a citizen of Thousand Oaks. I'm as saddened and dismayed as anyone else, but I think it's important not to paint a narrative that is more linked to media coverage than facts on the ground. Something like this happening in your city is deeply tragic, and an indicator of seriously problems in our country period, but it does not change the fact that day to day most people are fairly safe. Cities recover from terrible things, even things like this.
I believe my post is more based in fact than narrative, though I'm guilty of promoting the story that extended magazines are legal in this area without verifying it. I live in an adjacent city, btw, ranked 38th safest in the nation. Much more affordable though. :|

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Grigoris » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 pm
...these are statistically rare events...
You keep saying that and yet every time I turn on my computer I learn of a new massacre. Every day. It seems that your statistical anomalies are becoming averages...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Another day in America

Post by HePo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:27 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 pm
...As horrible as these events are, and as much as action needs to be taken, changes need to be made, etc. etc., these are statistically rare events...
Sofar there have been 307 mass shootings this year - do you really think then - that this shooting can be called a statistically rare event?
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/repo ... s-shooting

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Malcolm » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 pm
...these are statistically rare events...
You keep saying that and yet every time I turn on my computer I learn of a new massacre. Every day. It seems that your statistical anomalies are becoming averages...
Compared to car accidents, definitely. 101 people die every day in car collisions in the US.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:36 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 pm
...these are statistically rare events...
You keep saying that and yet every time I turn on my computer I learn of a new massacre. Every day. It seems that your statistical anomalies are becoming averages...
They are becoming more common, and that's terrible. People are still in greater danger from any number of things. Obviously, how often you see something on the news is not indicative of anything but how the news works.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Re: Another day in America

Post by boda » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:46 pm

Speaking of statistically rare, two men who survived last years Las Vegas mass shooting were also in this shooting. One of them survived.

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:48 pm

In 2013, the VA released a study that covered suicides from 1999 to 2010, which showed that roughly 22 veterans were dying by suicide per day, or one every 65 minutes.

En.wikipedia.org. (2018). United States military veteran suicide. [online] Available at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... an_suicide [Accessed 9 Nov. 2018].

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:55 pm

Public mass shootings account for a tiny fraction of the country’s gun deaths, but they are uniquely terrifying because they occur without warning in the most mundane places. ... There is no universally accepted definition of a public mass shooting, and this piece defines it narrowly. It looks at the 158 shootings in which four or more people were killed by a lone shooter (two shooters in a few cases). It does not include shootings tied to gang disputes or robberies that went awry, and it does not include domestic shootings that took place exclusively in private homes. A broader definition would yield much higher numbers. 1,135 killed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... afbe0f4515


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Re: Another day in America

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:00 pm

boda wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:46 pm
Speaking of statistically rare, two men who survived last years Las Vegas mass shooting were also in this shooting. One of them survived.
Susan Schmidt-Orfanos, her voice and head shaking with grief and rage, said outside her family's home, "My son was in Las Vegas with one of his friends and he came home. He didn't come home last night. And I don't want prayers, I don't want thoughts, I want gun control and I hope to God nobody else sends me more prayers. I want gun control. No. More. Guns."

"Man Who Survived Vegas Shooting Died In Thousand Oaks Massacre". 2018. Cbsnews.Com. Accessed November 9 2018. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california ... -massacre/.

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Grigoris » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:29 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:56 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 pm
...these are statistically rare events...
You keep saying that and yet every time I turn on my computer I learn of a new massacre. Every day. It seems that your statistical anomalies are becoming averages...
Compared to car accidents, definitely. 101 people die every day in car collisions in the US.
Compared to deaths by heart disease they are statistically insignificant. But what I am saying is that their increasing frequency is making them less rare.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:31 pm

Even 1 would be too many

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:51 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:31 pm
Even 1 would be too many
Thats a low threshold. Murder with firearms is gonna happen, even in places far less crazy than America. Especially given the (very valid) information you've posted, perhaps a mindset of harm reduction is a little more realistic than that. I was just reading about Japans approach - part of it is rigorous testing...
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Malcolm » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:59 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:29 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:56 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 pm
You keep saying that and yet every time I turn on my computer I learn of a new massacre. Every day. It seems that your statistical anomalies are becoming averages...
Compared to car accidents, definitely. 101 people die every day in car collisions in the US.
Compared to deaths by heart disease they are statistically insignificant. But what I am saying is that their increasing frequency is making them less rare.
Everywhere used to be much more violent. We live in a comparatively peaceful epoch, actually.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Queequeg » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:01 pm

If directly addressing guns is too hard, then one option is to go back to approaching guns as a health issue. This would establish the "compelling government interest" in regulating guns, giving clearance from the 2nd amendment. Might even make some executive actions possible that would bypass congress.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Another day in America

Post by Tlalok » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:03 pm

Significant or not, they are pointless deaths that could be stopped with very little effort. If Americans were dying in vending machines at this rate, there would be action. Even though its a very small chunk of the total mortality, its a serious public health issue.

Look at the rates of mass shootings in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre for example. Tactically, its an easy fix, practically with the American situation, its basically impossible.

IMO just scrap the 2nd Amendment and re-write the constitution. Its insane that a document written in the 18th century by rich white slave owners is sued to govern a 21st century multiethnic state with 300 million inhabitants.

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