Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

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Grigoris
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Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:56 pm

Executions by hanging would be the first carried out in Sri Lanka since 1976 when a moratorium was implemented.

Sri Lanka's president signed death warrants on Wednesday for four drug offenders who will "very soon" become the first people executed in decades on the island.

Maithripala Sirisena said he completed formalities to end a 42-year-old moratorium on the death penalty, which he said was needed to clamp down on a rampant narcotics trade.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

ford_truckin
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by ford_truckin » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm

:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
"We should not express outwardly signs of wisdom, goodness, or diligence, for inwardly we are filled with falsity."
- Shinran Shonin

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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:45 am

ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
Yes, as a Buddhist you are supposed to at least attempt empathy and compassion for everyone you can, including killers, drug dealers, etc.

Doesn't necessarily mean one would be against the death penalty entirely (though I can't imagine a compelling Buddhist argument for it)...but are you supposed to have sympathy for drug dealers/addicts (lemme clue you in, they are often one and the same, despite media presentations to the contrary) who will be killed by the state? What the Naraka do you think dude?

Yes, you should. If you don't, then your practice is severely lacking.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

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KeithA
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by KeithA » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:13 am

Ugh...so much bad karma. :(

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Grigoris
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:22 am

ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
I sincerely wish that neither you, nor anybody you love, ever becomes addicted to drugs.

The idea of the post though, is for Buddhists to consider what it means for a Buddhist nation to have in place a state sponsored mechanism that directly transgresses Right Action.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

ford_truckin
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by ford_truckin » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:54 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:45 am
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
Yes, as a Buddhist you are supposed to at least attempt empathy and compassion for everyone you can, including killers, drug dealers, etc.

Doesn't necessarily mean one would be against the death penalty entirely (though I can't imagine a compelling Buddhist argument for it)...but are you supposed to have sympathy for drug dealers/addicts (lemme clue you in, they are often one and the same, despite media presentations to the contrary) who will be killed by the state? What the Naraka do you think dude?

Yes, you should. If you don't, then your practice is severely lacking.
Good point, I'll try to include El Chapo in my next metta meditation.
"We should not express outwardly signs of wisdom, goodness, or diligence, for inwardly we are filled with falsity."
- Shinran Shonin

ford_truckin
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by ford_truckin » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:55 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:22 am
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
I sincerely wish that neither you, nor anybody you love, ever becomes addicted to drugs.

The idea of the post though, is for Buddhists to consider what it means for a Buddhist nation to have in place a state sponsored mechanism that directly transgresses Right Action.
I see
"We should not express outwardly signs of wisdom, goodness, or diligence, for inwardly we are filled with falsity."
- Shinran Shonin

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Grigoris
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:03 am

ford_truckin wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:54 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:45 am
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
Yes, as a Buddhist you are supposed to at least attempt empathy and compassion for everyone you can, including killers, drug dealers, etc.

Doesn't necessarily mean one would be against the death penalty entirely (though I can't imagine a compelling Buddhist argument for it)...but are you supposed to have sympathy for drug dealers/addicts (lemme clue you in, they are often one and the same, despite media presentations to the contrary) who will be killed by the state? What the Naraka do you think dude?

Yes, you should. If you don't, then your practice is severely lacking.
Good point, I'll try to include El Chapo in my next metta meditation.
In lojong practices we take "enemies" as objects of compassion after first habituating ourselves to the practice with ourselves as the object, then people close to us, then people that are distant to us that we have a positive attitude towards, then people towards which we have a neutral attitude, then people we consider enemies.

Until we reach the final stage we try to remain neutral towards people, we at least refrain from aversion.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Miroku
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Miroku » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:19 am

This is extremely sad. Instead of trying to try educate, inform or in other ways change the ways of the criminals, they just murder them. Why is it that the more "religious" the government is the less compassion it has with its people?
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

shaunc
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by shaunc » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:41 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:22 am
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
I sincerely wish that neither you, nor anybody you love, ever becomes addicted to drugs.

The idea of the post though, is for Buddhists to consider what it means for a Buddhist nation to have in place a state sponsored mechanism that directly transgresses Right Action.

Quite a few Buddhist countries have the death penalty as do moslem countries, Christian countries and secular countries.
In actual fact it's just another country that imposes the death penalty for drug trafficking.

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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by kirtu » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:46 pm

shaunc wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:41 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:22 am
The idea of the post though, is for Buddhists to consider what it means for a Buddhist nation to have in place a state sponsored mechanism that directly transgresses Right Action.

Quite a few Buddhist countries have the death penalty as do moslem countries, Christian countries and secular countries.
In actual fact it's just another country that imposes the death penalty for drug trafficking.
No country, and certainly no country that considers itself Buddhist, should have a death penalty.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Grigoris
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:46 pm

shaunc wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:41 pm
Quite a few Buddhist countries have the death penalty as do moslem countries, Christian countries and secular countries.
In actual fact it's just another country that imposes the death penalty for drug trafficking.
Whataboutism is hardly unassailable logic.

Sri Lanka DOES NOT currently have a death penalty, they want to reinstate the death penalty.

They could just NOT reinstate the death penalty, if they want to consider themselves a truly democratic and Buddhist nation.

It is that simple.

Appealing to irrationality and delusion is hardly a justification.

That is what the president is doing: "The Philippine's mad dictator has the death sentence for drug trafficking, so we should have it too."

Ummmm... No?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Simon E.
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Simon E. » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:55 pm

kirtu wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:46 pm
shaunc wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:41 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:22 am
The idea of the post though, is for Buddhists to consider what it means for a Buddhist nation to have in place a state sponsored mechanism that directly transgresses Right Action.

Quite a few Buddhist countries have the death penalty as do moslem countries, Christian countries and secular countries.
In actual fact it's just another country that imposes the death penalty for drug trafficking.
No country, and certainly no country that considers itself Buddhist, should have a death penalty.

Kirt

Absolutely.
I know nothing. This is not false modesty.

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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:38 pm

ford_truckin wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:54 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:45 am
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
Yes, as a Buddhist you are supposed to at least attempt empathy and compassion for everyone you can, including killers, drug dealers, etc.

Doesn't necessarily mean one would be against the death penalty entirely (though I can't imagine a compelling Buddhist argument for it)...but are you supposed to have sympathy for drug dealers/addicts (lemme clue you in, they are often one and the same, despite media presentations to the contrary) who will be killed by the state? What the Naraka do you think dude?

Yes, you should. If you don't, then your practice is severely lacking.
Good point, I'll try to include El Chapo in my next metta meditation.
You are actually supposed to do that. Are you unaware of that? Did you think it was only for people you liked?
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

HePo
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by HePo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:16 pm

Miroku wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:19 am
...
. Why is it that the more "religious" the government is the less compassion it has with its people?
Bob Dylan - With God on Our Side (1964)
..
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side
...

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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:54 pm

ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
When the rhetorical you encounters Buddhism and you decide that Buddhism seems like a good idea and then decide you are a 'Buddhist' and you encounter those less fortunate than you, you have two choices.

You can chose to say

This is called, monks, difference of faculties, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of fruits and the difference of fruits, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of persons. (T99.99c19)

Or you can choose to say

I deeply revere you all, never daring to disparage any. Why is this? You all, each and every, tread the bodhisattva path and will attain Buddhahood. (T262.50c14)

One of these quotes is dreadfully out of context, but seems to represent the sentiments behind your our post.

If a man came to you on fire and you had a water bucket, however small, perhaps it was only a cup of water, even if your water cup could never dose the extent of the flames covering his body, would you try your best to dose the fire as quickly as possible even if you could not get all of it? Or would you waste time on having the man-on-fire reflect about what happened in his life that caused him to be in this condition and then offer remedial assistance?

Your kindness is a cup of water. It might not be enough to save a burning man, but it can help. You can choose to drink it yourself or cast it on the man's burning flesh.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

ford_truckin
Posts: 156
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by ford_truckin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:33 am

Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:54 pm
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
When the rhetorical you encounters Buddhism and you decide that Buddhism seems like a good idea and then decide you are a 'Buddhist' and you encounter those less fortunate than you, you have two choices.

You can chose to say

This is called, monks, difference of faculties, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of fruits and the difference of fruits, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of persons. (T99.99c19)

Or you can choose to say

I deeply revere you all, never daring to disparage any. Why is this? You all, each and every, tread the bodhisattva path and will attain Buddhahood. (T262.50c14)

One of these quotes is dreadfully out of context, but seems to represent the sentiments behind your our post.

If a man came to you on fire and you had a water bucket, however small, perhaps it was only a cup of water, even if your water cup could never dose the extent of the flames covering his body, would you try your best to dose the fire as quickly as possible even if you could not get all of it? Or would you waste time on having the man-on-fire reflect about what happened in his life that caused him to be in this condition and then offer remedial assistance?

Your kindness is a cup of water. It might not be enough to save a burning man, but it can help. You can choose to drink it yourself or cast it on the man's burning flesh.
I'll drink the cup of water. Not even Buddhas can erase the karmic effects for sentient beings so there's no amount of self righteous posturing done my part that will be able to do anything about it.
"We should not express outwardly signs of wisdom, goodness, or diligence, for inwardly we are filled with falsity."
- Shinran Shonin

Punya
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Punya » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:22 am

ford_truckin wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:33 am
Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:54 pm
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
When the rhetorical you encounters Buddhism and you decide that Buddhism seems like a good idea and then decide you are a 'Buddhist' and you encounter those less fortunate than you, you have two choices.

You can chose to say

This is called, monks, difference of faculties, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of fruits and the difference of fruits, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of persons. (T99.99c19)

Or you can choose to say

I deeply revere you all, never daring to disparage any. Why is this? You all, each and every, tread the bodhisattva path and will attain Buddhahood. (T262.50c14)

One of these quotes is dreadfully out of context, but seems to represent the sentiments behind your our post.

If a man came to you on fire and you had a water bucket, however small, perhaps it was only a cup of water, even if your water cup could never dose the extent of the flames covering his body, would you try your best to dose the fire as quickly as possible even if you could not get all of it? Or would you waste time on having the man-on-fire reflect about what happened in his life that caused him to be in this condition and then offer remedial assistance?

Your kindness is a cup of water. It might not be enough to save a burning man, but it can help. You can choose to drink it yourself or cast it on the man's burning flesh.
I'll drink the cup of water. Not even Buddhas can erase the karmic effects for sentient beings so there's no amount of self righteous posturing done my part that will be able to do anything about it.
No, but until we reach an enlightened state (where this attitude will just come naturally) we can all do our best to cultivate an attitude of equanimity to all beings. This needs to encompass mass murderers, rapists, etc. They all have circumstances that led them to this point. You could say they should take responsibility for their own actions but, as I'm sure you know, negative habits can be incredibly hard to break and mistaken views abound.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche

Punya
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Punya » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:26 am

kirtu wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:46 pm
shaunc wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:41 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:22 am
The idea of the post though, is for Buddhists to consider what it means for a Buddhist nation to have in place a state sponsored mechanism that directly transgresses Right Action.

Quite a few Buddhist countries have the death penalty as do moslem countries, Christian countries and secular countries.
In actual fact it's just another country that imposes the death penalty for drug trafficking.
No country, and certainly no country that considers itself Buddhist, should have a death penalty.

Kirt
I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a Buddhist country. An enlightened system of government didn't seem to be in the Buddha's plan.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Sri Lanka president signs death warrants to end moratorium

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:06 am

ford_truckin wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:33 am
Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:54 pm
ford_truckin wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:31 pm
:shrug:

Are we supposed to have some kind of sympathy? You reap what you sow as they say.
When the rhetorical you encounters Buddhism and you decide that Buddhism seems like a good idea and then decide you are a 'Buddhist' and you encounter those less fortunate than you, you have two choices.

You can chose to say

This is called, monks, difference of faculties, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of fruits and the difference of fruits, on account of causes and conditions, informing the difference of persons. (T99.99c19)

Or you can choose to say

I deeply revere you all, never daring to disparage any. Why is this? You all, each and every, tread the bodhisattva path and will attain Buddhahood. (T262.50c14)

One of these quotes is dreadfully out of context, but seems to represent the sentiments behind your our post.

If a man came to you on fire and you had a water bucket, however small, perhaps it was only a cup of water, even if your water cup could never dose the extent of the flames covering his body, would you try your best to dose the fire as quickly as possible even if you could not get all of it? Or would you waste time on having the man-on-fire reflect about what happened in his life that caused him to be in this condition and then offer remedial assistance?

Your kindness is a cup of water. It might not be enough to save a burning man, but it can help. You can choose to drink it yourself or cast it on the man's burning flesh.
I'll drink the cup of water. Not even Buddhas can erase the karmic effects for sentient beings so there's no amount of self righteous posturing done my part that will be able to do anything about it.
If you’d just drink the water, not only are you failing in practicing Dharma, you are just being a crap human being. Completely non religious people can manage some bit of compassion for their perceived enemies. Your attitude here is like an inverted Bodisattva.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

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