Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Sora
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Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Sora » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:37 pm

In the Naga Rite booklet by Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the use of "talisman" is mentioned.
Does anybody know if that is indispensable for this practice? If so, what do we need exactly?
I know it has to be pretty precise when we do offering to Naga... Any information is appreciated!

jay
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by jay » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:54 pm

Hi there,

Did you manage to find any information about the use of the talisman. Am thinking of doing the rite myself too.

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Mantrik
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Sat May 05, 2018 8:04 pm

Necro Bump.

I can't remember what the 'talisman' is, but remember reading about it in the booklet. I was reminded as today is a Naga positive day for the Rite.

If anyone know, please PM or post a reply if it isn't a problem. Thanks :)
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue May 08, 2018 3:00 am

"Please come to dwell on this talisman of good omen" seems like a nice statue.

i remember a sutra, jataka tale perhaps, where a naga gave a talisman to a man so he could hear and understand what animals where talking... like a pendant, token, idol, etc. so maybe is something that represents the naga friendship

why don't ask merigar or tenerife? afaik in merigar there is a talisman in a pond, situated there by rinpoche himself

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Tue May 08, 2018 8:05 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 3:00 am
"Please come to dwell on this talisman of good omen" seems like a nice statue.

i remember a sutra, jataka tale perhaps, where a naga gave a talisman to a man so he could hear and understand what animals where talking... like a pendant, token, idol, etc. so maybe is something that represents the naga friendship

why don't ask merigar or tenerife? afaik in merigar there is a talisman in a pond, situated there by rinpoche himself
Thanks. Yes, I've emailed a senior member of the DC. :) (Obviously not ChNN at this time.)
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Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue May 08, 2018 10:01 am

Mantrik wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:05 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 3:00 am
"Please come to dwell on this talisman of good omen" seems like a nice statue.

i remember a sutra, jataka tale perhaps, where a naga gave a talisman to a man so he could hear and understand what animals where talking... like a pendant, token, idol, etc. so maybe is something that represents the naga friendship

why don't ask merigar or tenerife? afaik in merigar there is a talisman in a pond, situated there by rinpoche himself
Thanks. Yes, I've emailed a senior member of the DC. :) (Obviously not ChNN at this time.)
Plz, share the news! :)

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Thu May 10, 2018 10:15 am

The people I asked do not know what the 'talisman' is.

''The 1993 booklet The Practice for the Naga explain it a little on page 11:

***** *** - an object or marker that brings good luck.......
........With ****** we ask the Nagas to stay on the talisman.

(Practice text omitted).

Rinpoche also mentions placing a talisman in a spring as a focus for communication and that he had done so at a spring in Merigar a few years before.

I'm going to guess that it isn't a paper talisman as it remains in the spring as a focus, so maybe a blessed thogchag of sorts.
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by boki » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:22 am

I am guessing talisman can be something like torma or some durable object. Since it complicates the practice I asked Rinpoche if it can be done without it just with some other sombolic offering like milk etc. and throwing them in the water. He replied: "You can do Naga Puja more simple way
when there is the date perfect."

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:33 am

Mantrik wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:15 am
The people I asked do not know what the 'talisman' is.

''The 1993 booklet The Practice for the Naga explain it a little on page 11:

***** *** - an object or marker that brings good luck.......
........With ****** we ask the Nagas to stay on the talisman.

(Practice text omitted).

Rinpoche also mentions placing a talisman in a spring as a focus for communication and that he had done so at a spring in Merigar a few years before.

I'm going to guess that it isn't a paper talisman as it remains in the spring as a focus, so maybe a blessed thogchag of sorts.
A melong? It works for dakini, so... :shrug:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:59 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:33 am
Mantrik wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:15 am
The people I asked do not know what the 'talisman' is.

''The 1993 booklet The Practice for the Naga explain it a little on page 11:

***** *** - an object or marker that brings good luck.......
........With ****** we ask the Nagas to stay on the talisman.

(Practice text omitted).

Rinpoche also mentions placing a talisman in a spring as a focus for communication and that he had done so at a spring in Merigar a few years before.

I'm going to guess that it isn't a paper talisman as it remains in the spring as a focus, so maybe a blessed thogchag of sorts.
A melong? It works for dakini, so... :shrug:
Possible, but I think he would have used the word 'melong'.
Melongs are used for blessing, purifying etc. and it would make sense to place one in a pool or stream, but the description of 'object or marker that brings good luck' doesn't quite fit I don't think.
I thought it may even be a gemstone or maybe inscribed piece of conch, those being linked to the Nagas.
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Crazywisdom » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:53 am

Be very careful.
“Guys, we’re coming up on The Devil’s Anus.” —Thor - Ragnarok

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:52 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:53 am
Be very careful.
Not quite sure what that means.

This being in the context of the DC ritual I would assume anyone who performs the rite would have received ChNN's instructions. If they get hold of it and perform it without any transmission they unlikely to heed warnings.

The description of the talisman is not part of an instruction to use one, or I am sure ChNN would have either shown it to us or included a pic or description. But I am curious to know more about the story he tells. (Maybe when he is well enough I may ask, but it is unlikely as once recovered he will have many serious practice questions from his students which must take priority, and even those may never be answered.)

There is a lot of advice out there, as usual. As a general rule, pollution of the environment angers them, so ChNN advises against use of musk and other animal products in offerings such as incense. Clearly polluting a lake or stream would be equally annoying to the Nagas. (I heard from someone who led a pilgrimage to Kailash that someone in his party was camped and decided to piss in a sacred lake.........and was seriously ill thereafter.) And of course we have the DC 2018 Calendar to advise on which days are suitable for Naga Puja and which are not.
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by boki » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:46 pm

Maybe by saying to be careful he is referring to something a seniour student of Rinpoche (Oliver L.) has told me about Naga practice. He said that Rinpoche has advised him that it is safer not to propitiate the nagas if not necessary because they are tricky and so on (potentially dangerous). I am not sure of the exact word he used but you understand the meaning. That is all he told me about this.

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:09 pm

boki wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:46 pm
Maybe by saying to be careful he is referring to something a seniour student of Rinpoche (Oliver L.) has told me about Naga practice. He said that Rinpoche has advised him that it is safer not to propitiate the nagas if not necessary because they are tricky and so on (potentially dangerous). I am not sure of the exact word he used but you understand the meaning. That is all he told me about this.
nagas can change their mood very easily, and are very powerful. An unconcious mistake can offend them, so be careful. They are not realized so if you make a mistake or don't have the correct attitude they won't be indulgent.

btw i asked a sms instructor but he couldn't give me directions on how the talisman should be (form, substance, etc.)

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:40 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:09 pm


btw i asked a sms instructor but he couldn't give me directions on how the talisman should be (form, substance, etc.)
Thanks. I asked two of ChNN's top translators and they didn't know.
In the notes it seems to imply that the talisman encourages the Nagas to remain and to return if they leave, so if you regularly use the same place it would add to the access to the Nagas.

Maybe after Rinpoche has recovered and has time for small questions of detail I may ask. :)
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by pemachophel » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:38 pm

This seems to be the right answer at this time given the circumstances:

Since it complicates the practice I asked Rinpoche if it can be done without it just with some other sombolic offering like milk etc. and throwing them in the water. He replied: "You can do Naga Puja more simple way
when there is the date perfect."


Without knowing the Tibetan, I have no idea what "talisman" means here in this context. In terms of putting something in spirngs, rivers, lakes, and oceans to please and appease the Nagas, this is commonly a Naga yang bum, a Naga wealth vase. It could also be a sa bum, an earth vase. When building a Naga "house," one typically buries one of these in the foundation. (I actually happened to do this two weekends ago.)
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:24 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:38 pm
This seems to be the right answer at this time given the circumstances:

Since it complicates the practice I asked Rinpoche if it can be done without it just with some other sombolic offering like milk etc. and throwing them in the water. He replied: "You can do Naga Puja more simple way
when there is the date perfect."


Without knowing the Tibetan, I have no idea what "talisman" means here in this context. In terms of putting something in spirngs, rivers, lakes, and oceans to please and appease the Nagas, this is commonly a Naga yang bum, a Naga wealth vase. It could also be a sa bum, an earth vase. When building a Naga "house," one typically buries one of these in the foundation. (I actually happened to do this two weekends ago.)
That's very interesting. Thank you. :)

Tha talisman is mentioned by ChNN, but I never saw it as a compulsory element. He calls it in the text 'an object or marker that brings good luck'.
Yes, milk is offered traditionally to Nagas - in Nepal, for example, poured from a conch shell.
The wealth vase seems very likely indeed, bearing in mind ChNN's phrase, again conch.
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by pemachophel » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:30 pm

When I mentioned yang bum and sa bum, the sa bum should go in the ground, not water.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Mantrik » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:24 am

pemachophel wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:30 pm
When I mentioned yang bum and sa bum, the sa bum should go in the ground, not water.
Thanks. :)
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Re: Dzogchen Community Naga Rite

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:38 am

Does the DC practice have a torma?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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