Dra Thalgyur Tantra

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Fa Dao
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Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:24 pm

This Tantra seems to be one that is referenced a great deal by many different Dzogchen Teachers. So of course I am thinking it is of obvious importance. I have a few questions ....#1 Can anyone who can actually read Tibetan give a brief synopsis of the main thrust of this Tantra in comparison to say other Dzogchen Tantras? and #2 how difficult is this Tantra to read if one were to try and learn Tibetan? I just remember somewhere where ChNN had said how difficult some passages were in the Marvelous Primordial State to render into English. It seems that some things in Tibetan are more direct and pithy and others...well..not so much. Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Malcolm » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:42 pm

Fa Dao wrote:This Tantra seems to be one that is referenced a great deal by many different Dzogchen Teachers. So of course I am thinking it is of obvious importance. I have a few questions ....#1 Can anyone who can actually read Tibetan give a brief synopsis of the main thrust of this Tantra in comparison to say other Dzogchen Tantras? and #2 how difficult is this Tantra to read if one were to try and learn Tibetan? I just remember somewhere where ChNN had said how difficult some passages were in the Marvelous Primordial State to render into English. It seems that some things in Tibetan are more direct and pithy and others...well..not so much. Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated.
This tantra is a sprawling text that cannot be correctly read without the aid of a commentary.

It presents the entire path of Dzogchen, embryology, cosmology, etc.

Even if one were to learn Tibetan, a classical education in the five classical sciences is a requirement to actually understand any of these texts.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Relax, don’t worry about all the problems of samsara. Everything is relative. But try to be present.


— Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:50 pm

Thanks Malcolm..thats what I was afraid of..and let me guess..there is no English translation/commentary, right?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Malcolm » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:51 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Thanks Malcolm..thats what I was afraid of..and let me guess..there is no English translation/commentary, right?
Not yet...Jean Luc Achard has apparently rendered the whole in French however. I am slowly working on it, and have let the SSI translators know this. So who knows, perhaps my draft will someday become the basis for a publication. But I have completed less than 10 percent.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Relax, don’t worry about all the problems of samsara. Everything is relative. But try to be present.


— Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:02 pm

yes yes..JLA has rendered almost everything into French..woo hoo for the French and bummer for the majority of the rest of the planet who speaks English. :rolling:
Good to know that you are out there Malcolm putting in the hours you do. Have you ever thought about self publishing? I know that with all of the hours you have put in on a daily basis for years that you must have TONS of cool stuff. I am sure that there are numerous people here that would contribute to getting your stuff self published and then you could be in control of getting it to those that have transmission...just a thought..
here is a link to a place I used many years ago that did a very good job for me..
http://www.48hrbooks.com
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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gad rgyangs
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by gad rgyangs » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:06 pm

the abidharmakosa translation is from the french. it shouldnt be hard or take too long to translate the tantra from french to english.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25

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Malcolm
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:43 am

gad rgyangs wrote:the abidharmakosa translation is from the french. it shouldnt be hard or take too long to translate the tantra from french to english.
Much if the tantra makes very little sense on its own without the commentary.

The commentary is roughly 1400 folios long.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Relax, don’t worry about all the problems of samsara. Everything is relative. But try to be present.


— Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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gad rgyangs
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by gad rgyangs » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:20 am

Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:the abidharmakosa translation is from the french. it shouldnt be hard or take too long to translate the tantra from french to english.
Much if the tantra makes very little sense on its own without the commentary.

The commentary is roughly 1400 folios long.
get to work brah!
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Fa Dao » Wed May 04, 2016 4:36 am

A year ago it was announced that Adriano Clemente, Elio Guarisco and Jim Valby would be translating this. Anyone have any news as to how that is coming along? perhaps a release date?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Vasana
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Vasana » Wed May 04, 2016 8:24 am

I think there was an update posted recently on either the melong or elsewhere but I can't find the link. I think a few other shorter projects have priority for the time being but once they're complete, there will be exclusive focus on this Tantra.

Longchenpa references many of it's passages in his Commentary on the Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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KrisW
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by KrisW » Sun May 08, 2016 1:24 am

Does having received the lung transmission of the root tantra make it easier to understand quoted verses?
The guru is the Buddha, the guru is the Dharma, likewise the guru is the Sangha, the guru is Śrī Heruka, the guru creates everything.

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Fa Dao » Sun May 08, 2016 2:24 am

Vasana wrote:I think there was an update posted recently on either the melong or elsewhere but I can't find the link. I think a few other shorter projects have priority for the time being but once they're complete, there will be exclusive focus on this Tantra.

Longchenpa references many of it's passages in his Commentary on the Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena.
Seems like a lot of Masters reference it...thats why I am so amped about it
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Vasana
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Re: Dra Thalgyur Tantra

Post by Vasana » Sun May 08, 2016 6:23 am

RikudouSennin wrote:Does having received the lung transmission of the root tantra make it easier to understand quoted verses?
It probably helps but reading transmission is like a seed being planted, from my limited understanding of these transmissions. It still needs water,sunlight,study practice etc

Having the reading transmission and a seperate commentary from Longchenpa with interlaced key points can only be a positive combination.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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