is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Motova
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Motova » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:53 am

This thread should probably be closed. :popcorn:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

undefineable
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by undefineable » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:13 am

theanarchist wrote:it can easily happen that the religious practice is integrated into the unhealthy trip instead of being an antidote to the delusions.
This might happen less if religions didn't tell the mentally ill that they're going to burn in hell forever :(
Motova wrote:This thread should probably be closed. :popcorn:
As a well-known quote goes: "They think it's all over? It is now _ " :toilet:

Ray Rudha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Ray Rudha » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:30 am

Should this thread be closed because the guy is getting some useful help instead of the usual run-around?

About mantra, it is not devotional practice. You can do devotional practice with mantra, but mantra itself is not devotional practice.

theanarchist
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by theanarchist » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:48 pm

odysseus wrote:
Ray Rudha wrote:Mantra is not devotional practice.
When you say a mantra, you´re devotional to the deity I understand.

You might use it simply as your focus for shamata practice, too.

But if there is no devotional element at all and you just use it as a concentration focos, you could as well recite a section of the telephone book.

theanarchist
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by theanarchist » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:51 pm

undefineable wrote: This might happen less if religions didn't tell the mentally ill that they're going to burn in hell forever :( :

Tibetan buddhism is also great for spiritual tripping out...

pemachophel
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by pemachophel » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:37 pm

"But if there is no devotional element at all and you just use it as a concentration focos, you could as well recite a section of the telephone book."

I disagree. IMO, the mantra will have an effect regardless of faith or not. Of course, the more faith, the more effect, but we should not discount the special power and blessings of authentic mantra.

:namaste:
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

Ray Rudha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Ray Rudha » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:23 pm

I don't know where you get this stuff from.

A mantra is a perfect mental sound-form, or, if you will, a perfectly stable enlightenment essence.

This is why it is possible to connect with a Buddha based on his or her mantra, and eventually have the realization of the pervasive nature of that Buddha, and to realize that the mantra itself is that nature.

Faith is merely a samadhi that keeps you going. This is, of course, a simplification, but the point is that with perfect practice one would not require something called faith, as perfect practice fully includes the samadhi called faith.

Faith is not a samadhi that is equal to the mantra's samadhi.

Clinging to faith instead of fully accepting the mantra's samadhi is not, in fact, faith.

emaho
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by emaho » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Ray Rudha wrote:Faith is merely a samadhi that keeps you going. This is, of course, a simplification, but the point is that with perfect practice one would not require something called faith, as perfect practice fully includes the samadhi called faith.

Faith is not a samadhi that is equal to the mantra's samadhi.

Clinging to faith instead of fully accepting the mantra's samadhi is not, in fact, faith.
Would you care to explain your usage of the word "samadhi" here? Honestly it appears to me that you're using it in a fantasy meaning...
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

Ray Rudha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Ray Rudha » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:56 pm

How could it possibly be a fantasy meaning.

If you say there is a being who generates faith, that being generates this based on the presence of apparently internal and external factors, which are an interplay of the 5 skandhas with the karma of the 5 elements.

Based on that being's characteristics, how stable and involved its consciousness is, how refined its air element and and how much it supports the workings of consciousness (water element), how its fire element works, whether it has somewhat entered one of the channels or it is just dirty fire generating desire - and so on, a very large amount of factors - based on these factors that being generates concentration.

What you call faith is a concentration, a more or less stable visaya upheld by concentration. It is a samadhi with object, or, in more refined cases, where the substances of that being have been transformed to some extent and are involved in that being's samadhi, faith can be a more formless samadhi.

But of course, if you have to ask me if I'm talking fantasy, your samadhi is not at all formless.

emaho
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by emaho » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:29 pm

Well, I've never heard the expressions "faith samadhi" or "mantra samadhi" before. Do you have any sources for these terms and for your claims?
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

Ray Rudha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Ray Rudha » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:40 pm

My claims are not claims.

If you read about the skandhas and elements, the channels and the stages of transformations of the elements and the channels, and how it all happens, by the way, only with samadhi, you'll find that this is just what it is.

As for mantra samadhi, are you serious?

I mean, I'm new here and I don't know what the general level of conversation is, but the various mantras have various samadhis. This is pretty much common knowledge.

You have the first 8 samadhis, the extinction samadhi of the Arhats, then various samadhis which are only achievable with enlightenment and the three bodies, OR through mantras.

Because this is what mantras are, an absolute perfection of a certain aspect of full Buddhahood.

emaho
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by emaho » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:04 am

If what you say is common knowledge it should be easy for you to provide references.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

Ray Rudha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Ray Rudha » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 am

Easy, but not my job to do so.

When you're given something, you try to research it and grow with it, or you don't.

But since I'm in a good mood I'll give you the best example. The Surangama mantra leads to the, you guessed it, Surangama Samadhi, which is known as the King of Samadhis.

You'll find a lot of info on the Surangama mantra on this forum.

This applies to all other mantras.

emaho
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by emaho » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:02 am

My question was very open minded and honest, I'm aware that there are many different Buddhist traditions with lots of different terminologies and I certainly do not know each and every single one of them. But I'm quite sure that faith is not a samadhi and has nothing to do with concentration. "Faith" is an attribute which is ascribed to someone based on his long-term behaviour and his long-term state of mind and his convictions and religious attitudes over an extended period of time. If somebody would, for instance, focus on having faith from 10:20 am until 10:30 am, but at 10:25 am he would get distracted for 5 seconds, you wouldn't say this person has completely lost his/her faith at 10:25, would you? It just doesn't make sense. Also you don't lose your faith when you go to sleep every night.

Since you refuse to explain yourself and to provide any references it's obviously better to end this conversation here.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

Ray Rudha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Ray Rudha » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:02 am

Samadhi is not a possession that a person has.

it is not an ongoing, measurable concentration which is counted in time.

You are taking a person view and a life view.

But in Mahayana and certainly in Vajrayana there is no discussion of an individual person and life.

Hence the question, what are the attributes of the constituents of a karmic being, or a pure being, for generating and upholding (with or without interruptions) faith?

Also, samadhi is fundamentally formless, therefore what you call gaps in time or in awareness (sleep, which is actually just a different awareness) do not necessarily constitute gaps in a particular samadhi.

If you understand the signlessness of essential nature, then you see that qualities, such as faith, are not objects unto themselves, but are empty and merely temporary or fundamental aspects of Buddha nature.

Therefore the question: if a quality, such as faith, is not an object in itself, with self-nature, belong to a person with self-nature, then what is it that upholds it over what you call a lifespan?

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Sönam
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Sönam » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:39 am

This kind of thread in the Dzogchen forum is a total confusion ...

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Seishin
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Seishin » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:24 am

Sönam wrote:This kind of thread in the Dzogchen forum is a total confusion ...

Sönam
Indeed it has.

As the thread has strayed from the original question (which has been answered) I am locking the thread.
If anyone feels they have something that may help the OP please PM them. Thank you :smile:

Gassho,
Seishin

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