is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

rubix
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is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by rubix » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:51 pm

I posted in personal experiences about dzogchen and got no where except backwards. I'm doing the best I can without a teacher reading lots and learning a lot too, seeing how I probably won't find a teacher just like that can anyone recommend a book that outlines the completion stage of dzogchen or can someone explain it

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Malcolm
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:56 pm

rubix wrote:I posted in personal experiences about dzogchen and got no where except backwards. I'm doing the best I can without a teacher reading lots and learning a lot too, seeing how I probably won't find a teacher just like that can anyone recommend a book that outlines the completion stage of dzogchen or can someone explain it
No one will help you, publicly at least, because you do not have a teacher and the necessary transmissions. It is a question of samaya, the code of conduct that governs the secrecy around these teachings. And I gave you advice in the other thread. Now it is up to you.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

rubix
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by rubix » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:22 pm

Was only asking about books doesn't matter anymore I found out what I needed to know I'm in the 5th stage I found it in one of my BOOKS

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Malcolm
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:29 pm

rubix wrote:Was only asking about books doesn't matter anymore I found out what I needed to know I'm in the 5th stage I found it in one of my BOOKS
You can delude yourself if you like.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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reddust
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by reddust » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:35 pm

rubix wrote:Was only asking about books doesn't matter anymore I found out what I needed to know I'm in the 5th stage I found it in one of my BOOKS
That's why a good teacher is important. They will kick your butt to see how you jump regarding what stage you think you are in....

A good teacher will kick your butt all the way back to the starting line. "Seriously teacher, I am firmly grounded in the 4th Jhana and own equanimity" Teacher smiles knowingly and hands you a task list, things you need to do...and.... :oops: task list can't be done without getting all riled up.

That never happened to me but I saw it happen to others. I don't have any attainments, except I grow a great garden :twothumbsup:
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living

krodha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by krodha » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:45 pm

rubix wrote:Was only asking about books doesn't matter anymore I found out what I needed to know I'm in the 5th stage I found it in one of my BOOKS
"Today some people are saying: 'The Dzogchen teaching doesn't need a teacher or transmission, you can learn it in a book and you can apply it'. This is really a very wrong view.
Nowadays in Western countries this kind of tradition or school is being developed but you shouldn't follow it. If you want to really follow Dzogchen teaching, that is the wrong direction. Garab Dorje received the transmission from Sambhogakāya Vajrasattva who is connected with Dharmakāya Samantabhadra, and from Garab Dorje until today we have the transmission without interruption.
If there is no transmission you cannot enter into real knowledge, it is impossible. That is why here... it is saying that you can really have that knowledge only if you are connected with the three transmissions. The three transmissions are just like a current.
For example if you have a lamp and you want to light it up you must connect it with a current, otherwise there will be no light... To believe you can get this knowledge just by reading books is a fantasy."
- Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by pemachophel » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:03 pm

Rubix,

You started this thread by asking for advice. My (Lama Pecho) advice is to find an authentic Teacher of Dzogchen with a good lineage. This may not be all that easy depending on your store of merit, but it is absolutely imperative if you really want to practice Dzogchen. Since Dzogchen is the highest, most precious, and most efficacious teaching in this world, if you really, really want it, no price and no difficulty should be too much.

If you enjoy reading, I suggest you read the lives of various famous Tibetan Buddhist Teachers of the past and present to see what They went through in order to find, be accepted by, and eventually realize the teachings of Their precious Teachers.

Good luck and best wishes.

:namaste:
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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reddust
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by reddust » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:10 pm

From Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's book The Crystal and the Way of Light. Dzogchen differs from the gradual paths because the master introduces the disciple directly to the Great Perfection, which is the heart of all the paths. Dzogchen has stages?
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living

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dzogchungpa
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:16 pm

rubix wrote:Was only asking about books doesn't matter anymore I found out what I needed to know I'm in the 5th stage I found it in one of my BOOKS
May I ask which book?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

krodha
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by krodha » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:31 pm

Rubix, I hope you realize people aren't saying these things to be mean. You seemed to think the comments on the other thread were condescending, they were not meant to be. People are only saying these things because they want you to be successful and create a beneficial connection with the teaching.

What you're perceiving as criticism is others wanting to help you. Trust me, none of us here know you, and you don't know us, many of us don't even really know each other, but everyone here only wants the best for you. If you enter this with a preconceived idea of what your situation or circumstances are then you're going to be looking to validate that, and/or protect it.

At any rate, I hope you can at least drop your guard a little and try to be open to what people are saying. You asked for advice, but it seems your inquiry was slightly loaded, because when you received advice (and good advice from numerous people) it appears it didn't coincide with your expectations, which would lead one to suspect you may have been simply looking to validate some preconceived notions. One who is openly seeking advice would not have adverse reactions to the advice given, nor would they persist in attempting to find more 'advice' (at the expense of the advice already given). That isn't seeking advice, that is seeking validation, or confirmation, of a hopeful conclusion which has already been arrived at.

shaunc
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by shaunc » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:16 pm

Pure land Buddhism can probably be learnt without a teacher to a certain extent. I feel fairly safe in saying that all other schools/sects require a teacher to learn from.

Norwegian
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Norwegian » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:02 am

From a Bön Dzogchen book:

"The present text should be seen as the fruit of an encounter between a highly qualified Tibetan Bönpo lama, willing and indeed eager to share his vast store of knowledge, and a Western pupil equally eager to learn and communicate to others what has been learnt. As a document resulting from such an interaction the text will repay study. It gives an indication, a kind of rough hint, of the spiritual treasures to be found in the Bön religion. At the same time, it is essential to realize what this text is not. It is not a real translation. The careful work of interpretation and collaboration, based on a close and competent study of a large number of texts in the original Tibetan remains to be done, and it is this alone which may, at some future time, make accurate and adequate translations possible. The reader is well advised to have no illusions about this. Even less should the text be taken to be a "do-it-yourself" manual for those who aspire actually to practice the spiritual discipline, to attain the "Great Perfection" described therein. For such practice the personal, regular guidance of a qualified, experienced lama is absolutely indispensable. Those wishing to experiment on their own may be assured that whatever mental experiences they may havewill be either delusive, or - the danger is a real one - destructive."

So no, a book alone is not enough. You must have a qualified Dzogchen teacher.

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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Motova » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:57 pm

Regardless if these visions are considered thogal visions (I assume the only distinction is that one has been directly introduced by a Lama) or not, they seem to have the same descriptions.

The OP is going to do what he/she wants, regardless of what you people say. They obviously think they are qualified to try Dzogchen by themselves because they have already experienced some visions. I know nothing about Dzogchen, and next to nothing about Buddhism but even I know these visions have use outside of Dzogchen.

So to the OP, you can't go anywhere in Dzogchen or Vajrayana without a Lama. Though you can still use your experiences to support your Buddhist practice (it's not like we can stop the OP from having visions). But I would contact a qualified Lama as soon as possible.
Last edited by Adamantine on Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: speculative conjecture on the and use nature of thogal visions has been removed
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by theanarchist » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:19 pm

shaunc wrote:Pure land Buddhism can probably be learnt without a teacher to a certain extent. I feel fairly safe in saying that all other schools/sects require a teacher to learn from.

You can certainly do sutrayana mind training without a teacher, like taking refuge, contemplating the 4 noble truths, following correct ethical behaviour.

Any kind of buddhist meditation requires a teacher as even shamata-vipasshana meditation can go wrong when not applied correctly.

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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by reddust » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:29 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Any kind of buddhist meditation requires a teacher as even shamata-vipasshana meditation can go wrong when not applied correctly.
The mind is very powerful...people can get lost. It's very important to be careful no matter what you are doing but especially when you are dealing with the hidden stuff. Dragons guarding treasures be there! :shock:
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living

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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Virgo » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:07 am

BOOK
You cannot get a Direct Introduction from a book, since a book is not alive it does not have a body, speech, and mind, and therefore can transmit nothing more than concepts.

It is a losing game thinking you can receive Dzogchen teachings from a text without a real transmission.

But, you seem to have a very keen interest. That is great. You should keep reading and learning, but get the transmissions, they are much more than just explanations. You receive those and then you will be in good shape.

Kevin
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rubix
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by rubix » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:57 pm

Stages bhumis I meant and I read wrong fro. As reading on a forum about the bhumis and dzogchen and the 4 visions it stated it ended with the tenth bhumi I was a bit upset but was not trying to upset anyone else I felt like I was being casted out by that user I know a teacher is essecial for learning but sometimes going it alone has its own rewards. Although it would be nice if everything was clear cut and describe for just what you need. My location doesn't have any tebetan temples the closest is in Toronto I think but that doeas little good for me. So I rely on studyin

Russell
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by Russell » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:03 pm

If you are really interested but cannot travel then listen to webcasts by His Holiness Dalai Lama and Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. There are quite a few others now giving webcasts but those two i know personally are very capable dzogchen masters and teachers and able to connect with you intimately via webcast.

rubix
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by rubix » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:06 pm

I know a book is purely intellectual and offers no direct experiences but I have been having many experiences since I was a young child and I use the books as references to my experiences and when people talk about the dharma in detail on the forums it usually comes up in Google searches and offers a good chance to become familiar with the teachings and for good reference material. If I get lucky maybe I can get a chance to learn a bit in BC where my mother lives and the teachers and dharma are accessible.

rubix
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Re: is there a teacher in the house? or at least some advice

Post by rubix » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:08 pm

Soar wrote:If you are really interested but cannot travel then listen to webcasts by His Holiness Dalai Lama and Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. There are quite a few others now giving webcasts but those two i know personally are very capable dzogchen masters and teachers and able to connect with you intimately via webcast.
Thanks I've heard of this previously but have been busy studying and have not looked it up yet I'll look into it

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