Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

dmr82
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Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dmr82 » Wed May 07, 2014 2:59 pm

Check out the look inside function on amazon, the second part entitled "The Visionary Path of Radiance".

http://www.amazon.com/Primordial-Grace- ... 0983194556

It's obvious this part was lifted straight out of the Yeshe Lama (since it follows the same structure) but with new age ideas to fit their erroneous view. I am kinda surprised this is just put out there for people to practice since these teachings were\are very secret in all dzogchen lineages. I guess if anything it's an interesting study of how one can go astray even with years of genuine retreat practice.

Motova
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Motova » Wed May 07, 2014 3:02 pm

The authors have already been discussed here. :coffee:

dmr82
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dmr82 » Wed May 07, 2014 3:05 pm

Motova wrote:The authors have already been discussed here. :coffee:
Yes but now they published a new book with instructions.

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heart
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by heart » Wed May 07, 2014 3:14 pm

dmr82 wrote:Check out the look inside function on amazon, the second part entitled "The Visionary Path of Radiance".

http://www.amazon.com/Primordial-Grace- ... 0983194556

It's obvious this part was lifted straight out of the Yeshe Lama (since it follows the same structure) but with new age ideas to fit their erroneous view. I am kinda surprised this is just put out there for people to practice since these teachings were\are very secret in all dzogchen lineages. I guess if anything it's an interesting study of how one can go astray even with years of genuine retreat practice.
I see no resemblance to Yeshe Lama.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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smcj
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by smcj » Wed May 07, 2014 3:15 pm

Motova wrote:The authors have already been discussed here.
I just tried using the search engine here and didn't find any hits.

Seems like all the secret teachings are eventually going to be put out on the market and sold for a price. And I will wager that the people doing it don't see anything wrong with that, anymore than selling a new diet or exercise book.

Anyone doubt we're that in the Kali Yuga?
:toilet:
Last edited by smcj on Wed May 07, 2014 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In the Tantra of the Beautiful Auspiciousness (bKra shis mdzes ldan gyi rgyud), this "Great Primordial Purity" (spyi gzhi) is defined as follows:

What is known as "The Great Primordial Purity”
Is the state abiding before authentic Buddhas arose
And before impure sentient beings appeared;
It is called the great Primordial radiance of immutable awareness.

*****
Sometimes you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places
If you look at it right.
-Robert Hunter-

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed May 07, 2014 3:26 pm

We're all going rainbow!

:woohoo:
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

dmr82
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dmr82 » Wed May 07, 2014 3:27 pm

heart wrote: I see no resemblance to Yeshe Lama.
Compare the chapter headings of togal sections of both books. They are exactly the same. The content is similar but with a new age twist.

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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Adamantine » Wed May 07, 2014 3:27 pm

I don't believe there is any benefit to promoting awareness about this book, even to inspire criticism. The protectors are entrusted with dealing with this kind of thing, it's sort of beyond most of our capacity and engaging with it will likely just cause us problems. . . There's a saying, "any press is good press". So on that note, this is the last thing I'll say on the subject.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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florin
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by florin » Wed May 07, 2014 3:37 pm

The need money to survive.
They were hermits for nine years...
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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heart
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by heart » Wed May 07, 2014 3:38 pm

dmr82 wrote:
heart wrote: I see no resemblance to Yeshe Lama.
Compare the chapter headings of togal sections of both books. They are exactly the same. The content is similar but with a new age twist.
Either you have a funny version of Yeshe Lama or I am blind. The only thing corresponding is the four visions and they are not particular to Yeshe Lama.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

dmr82
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dmr82 » Wed May 07, 2014 3:46 pm

Adamantine wrote:I don't believe there is any benefit to promoting awareness about this book, even to inspire criticism. The protectors are entrusted with dealing with this kind of thing, it's sort of beyond most of our capacity and engaging with it will likely just cause us problems. . . There's a saying, "any press is good press". So on that note, this is the last thing I'll say on the subject.
And how would you differentiate the energy of the protectors manifesting in inspiring us to write these things so people won't be led astray??

We have to look at the root intention here. That's what's most important. And in this case when people search about the book they will know the content does not contain the correct blessings of a lineage therefore they are aware that practicing it is not going to bring them to the completion of the 4 visions. So I'd say this discussion is beneficial.

dmr82
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dmr82 » Wed May 07, 2014 3:51 pm

heart wrote:Either you have a funny version of Yeshe Lama or I am blind. The only thing corresponding is the four visions and they are not particular to Yeshe Lama.
The discussion of the lamps, postures, key points, visions, etc all follow the same structure as Yeshe Lama.

Other texts have them too but the structure in this case is exactly the same.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed May 07, 2014 4:08 pm

smcj wrote:
Motova wrote:The authors have already been discussed here.
I just tried using the search engine here and didn't find any hits.
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3351
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Sönam » Wed May 07, 2014 5:17 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:We're all going rainbow!

:woohoo:
Did'nt ChNN says nearely so during Thögal retreat?

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed May 07, 2014 5:24 pm

Sönam wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:We're all going rainbow!
Did'nt ChNN says nearely so during Thögal retreat?
Did he? Sadly, I was not there.

:crying:
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

Andrew108
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Andrew108 » Wed May 07, 2014 6:35 pm

They seem to be very nice people and have done a lot of practice. Perhaps it helps to keep an open mind.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

theanarchist
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by theanarchist » Wed May 07, 2014 7:03 pm

Andrew108 wrote:They seem to be very nice people and have done a lot of practice. Perhaps it helps to keep an open mind.

Doesn't matter. These practices can't be done without the direct teachings and transmission of a qualified guru who is holding the lineage and has realization in the practice. Publishing texts on it in an openly available book is a sign that they don't know what they are talking about.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed May 07, 2014 7:10 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Andrew108 wrote:They seem to be very nice people and have done a lot of practice. Perhaps it helps to keep an open mind.
Doesn't matter. These practices can't be done without the direct teachings and transmission of a qualified guru who is holding the lineage and has realization in the practice. Publishing texts on it in an openly available book is a sign that they don't know what they are talking about.
I believe they learned togal from Lama Drimed Norbu, one of Chagdud Tulku's dzogchen lineage holders.
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Pero » Wed May 07, 2014 7:40 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Andrew108 wrote:They seem to be very nice people and have done a lot of practice. Perhaps it helps to keep an open mind.

Doesn't matter. These practices can't be done without the direct teachings and transmission of a qualified guru who is holding the lineage and has realization in the practice. Publishing texts on it in an openly available book is a sign that they don't know what they are talking about.
Uh huh, I guess Loppon Tenzin Namdak doesn't know what he's talking about either right?
Not defending them at all, just saying publishing something in a publicly available book is no indication of anything at all.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by krodha » Wed May 07, 2014 8:04 pm

"Heart Drops of Dharmakāya" pays homage to the guru, the lineage, stresses the vital importance of direct introduction from a qualified teacher and cites quite a few preliminaries which are to be practiced prior to even reading about the man ngag sde practices, let alone practicing them (which Loppön is clear in saying transmission is required).

The Old's are not doing any of that, and in fact it sounds as if they have turned their backs on their teacher (who informed them they did not complete the path they claim to have completed) and lineage completely. It's bad news.

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