How to set a Longde daily practice?

[Shemmy]

After ChNN's last retreat, the one on Longsal Longde, I am even more interested to try and add Longde to my practice routine, Longde seems to be fantastic actually, a supercallifragilistically flabberghasting boon to our practice. Just my opinion.

But all transitory and perhaps distracting enthusiasms aside, when it comes down to it, I don't feel I understand how one would do Longde as a daily practice. I even have the Longsal Longde text but that plus our retreat hasn't shed any light on for example specifications for props, seems you would need to make your own, and seems there needs to be more info than simply the length of the prop, if you catch my drift. Also, there are plenty of hints and indications about times for practice, enough to suggest that times that one practices might be crucial, but not enough said so that you can nail down when you ought to do the practices. There is much infomation regarding the times that seems complete but there are suggestions about other factors that I think I really ought not mention on a public forum. I haven't been able to fathom when and why are the positions performed for example separately or together, or only one position done daily until signs are received etc. it wasn't mentioned at the retreat and isn't mentioned on the text I have. How to do the positions is clear but the way they are applied is not at all. There are other things that are not clear and it all leaves me with a strong suspicion there are many other aspects you wouldn't know about at all having simply attended the retreat online and having a copy of the Longsal Longde text. Of course, it had occured to me that perhaps Longde is just something we dive into and experiement with and see what happens and do everything according to seems appropriate to us, which is fine by me if that is how it should be done, but I have not seen, heard or read anything to that affect.

So,to cut to the chase, is there any way that a remote practitioner can get up to speed, aside from going far away to a DC Community meditation center for individual tutoring or a second retreat ? Places to order props, books that perhaps present a walkthrough Longde for Dummies or something almost as good and/or something that is pretty comprehensive that anyone can recommend?

[Zeno]

Hi, I am in a similar situation to you. I've found meditation sticks at the following links:

http://www.vedicvaani.com/Meditation-Stick
http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/meditati ... _4688.php4
http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/produ ... #buyoption

You may need to shorten them or glue something to the bottom to lengthen them
depending on the length you need.

Meditation belts:

http://tibetanhandloom.com/product/viewdetials/13
http://www.tibetantreasures.com/Meditat ... _Belt.html
http://www.garudashop.com/MEDITATION_BE ... agbelt.htm

You can also search for "yoga strap" which are much more common. The disadvantage with those
are they are usually narrower so they might dig into your back if you don't wrap them in cloth
or something.

I'm afraid I can't help you with your other questions.

[Shemmy]

Cheers, thanks Zeno! I think also there are requirements regarding the color of the gomtak/meditation belts tho, but until I can get one woven, which actually is entirely feasible at a reasonable price in my area, perhaps just some kind of yoga belt or other will have to do. It was mentioned that there are required colors rather in passing during Fabio's demonstration, but the colors were not mentioned. However, you can see the colors of the belt he is using, I will probably watch the recording I made a few times and figure it out. If anyone wants to know what i find out just ask.

[Losal Samten]

I don't feel I understand how one would do Longde as a daily practice. I even have the Longsal Longde text

Which one? The text with the Longsal symbol on the cover or the one with the body? The former is more detailed but the latter is more relatable; both seem necessary IMO.

[Shemmy]

I have a version of the Longsal text, not the one with the person on the cover. I'm not sure, but there may be two different ones with the Longsal symbol. I notice that the copy being sold in the Shangshung bookstore seems to be entirely devoted to the Vajra Bridge Longde. The one I have is split into three sections with The Yoga of Clarity and Emptiness, The Longde Vajra Bridge and one other Longsal teaching. So there really isn't that much commentary. In any event, I've received some pms with enough info to restore my confidence to plug ahead.

[Somerset]

Hi,
this is the one that I use - Irish bog oak, very sturdy and it has to be cut to size (by purchaser) so will be tailored to the individual using the prescribed measurements.
http://www.innereyeyoga.co.uk/danda_view.html
Some of the traditional Indian Danda are very short and a bit flimsy.

There are lots of belts out there but I would make a composite of a base colour and some other materials so as to get the right 3 colours.
Good luck!

[Shemmy]

That looks like a really nice meditation stick, Somerset, great they'll cut it to size as well.

[Zeno]

I had a question I hope someone can answer for me. I know it was explained that one position is reversed
depending if it is morning or afternoon. Could someone clarify if the four positions related to syllables also change
according to time of day or do they stay the same. I know they are different according to gender.

[Shemmy]

I had a question I hope someone can answer for me. I know it was explained that one position is reversed
depending if it is morning or afternoon. Could someone clarify if the four positions related to syllables also change
according to time of day or do they stay the same. I know they are different according to gender.

Zeno, I really don't think so. I am far from clear on it as I have mentioned tho.

I stumbled onto this text, it is CHNN's commentary, it may help to clarify things, tho it is not a text on the Longsal Longde, it is Vairochana's text: "Longde Teachings: Based on the Original Texts by Vairochana and Dzin Dharmabodhi" someone has uploaded a copy to the internet to be consulted, a lot seems applicable to our own teaching:

[Zeno]

I suppose it would be specifically mentioned if that were the case. I was just reading about the importance
of time in longde and it occurred to me I might have missed that it applied to all the positions.

[lelopa]

...........................
Some of the traditional Indian Danda are very short and a bit flimsy.

...................

oh yes - you're right.....

[flavio81]

After ChNN's last retreat, the one on Longsal Longde, I am even more interested to try and add Longde to my practice routine, Longde seems to be fantastic actually, a supercallifragilistically flabberghasting boon to our practice. Just my opinion.

But all transitory and perhaps distracting enthusiasms aside, when it comes down to it, I don't feel I understand how one would do Longde as a daily practice. I even have the Longsal Longde text but that plus our retreat hasn't shed any light on for example specifications for props, seems you would need to make your own, and seems there needs to be more info than simply the length of the prop, if you catch my drift. Also, there are plenty of hints and indications about times for practice, enough to suggest that times that one practices might be crucial, but not enough said so that you can nail down when you ought to do the practices. There is much infomation regarding the times that seems complete but there are suggestions about other factors that I think I really ought not mention on a public forum. I haven't been able to fathom when and why are the positions performed for example separately or together, or only one position done daily until signs are received etc. it wasn't mentioned at the retreat and isn't mentioned on the text I have. How to do the positions is clear but the way they are applied is not at all. There are other things that are not clear and it all leaves me with a strong suspicion there are many other aspects you wouldn't know about at all having simply attended the retreat online and having a copy of the Longsal Longde text. Of course, it had occured to me that perhaps Longde is just something we dive into and experiement with and see what happens and do everything according to seems appropriate to us, which is fine by me if that is how it should be done, but I have not seen, heard or read anything to that affect.

So,to cut to the chase, is there any way that a remote practitioner can get up to speed, aside from going far away to a DC Community meditation center for individual tutoring or a second retreat ? Places to order props, books that perhaps present a walkthrough Longde for Dummies or something almost as good and/or something that is pretty comprehensive that anyone can recommend?

Hi,

I agree on your opinion regarding the Longde teachings. Last time when I was on a Longde retreat with ChNN, long ago at Venezuela, the meditation sticks were sold there, as well as the belts. Also, locally, our DC center has the sticks and belts for sale.

As for the aspects of the practice, i thought they were well covered in the book called "LONGDE TEACHINGS" by none other than our dear master ChNN. It is a blue-colored book.

I see you attended the retreat online; i don't think it would be too dificult to have a woodworker create a meditation stick for you; if you read the aforementioned text you would understand that it will be the right size once it allows you to achieve the (secret) postures/positions, while applying a bit of pressure on the point that is (approximately) below the armpit.

Same for the belt, it should allow you to keep the posture/position comfortably, which includes allowing to apply pressure on the corresponding points.

Of course don't forget that this practice requires creating a connection with the Heruka that is related to the practice. The book i've mentioned covers this point as well.

Greetings and long life to the master !

[pineblossom]

So,to cut to the chase, is there any way that a remote practitioner can get up to speed, aside from going far away to a DC Community meditation center for individual tutoring or a second retreat ? Places to order props, books that perhaps present a walkthrough Longde for Dummies or something almost as good and/or something that is pretty comprehensive that anyone can recommend?

I am going to shock you. There is no 'walkthrough for dummies' with respect to dzongchen. It is hard work and takes time, depending on your capabilities.

Restricted as I am by poverty and location I cannot attend the various teachings that take place so I have not attended any of ChNN lectures although I have engaged with his web archives. You may be in a similar position.

But I do have oodles of books on the subject of dzongchen and other related matters and I do have a teacher which I contact about every two years.

So, for what it is worth, here is my response to your question.

If you want to follow a system, go ahead, be my guest. But don't expect anything other than a feeling, good or bad, that you are following a system. A system won't get you enlightened. If you want enlightenment then that is another matter.

For dzongchen you don't have to do anything, you are enlightened right but you don't know it because you are looking for 'results'. The first thing to do is destroy the ego that is looking for 'results'. This means renunciation, like turning off the TV, avoiding politics, eating sparingly, stop buying 'stuff', living simple and frugally, in other words, becoming a hermit in the midst of social chaos. If you are unable to do this then whatever you do will have little fruit other than creating further confusion. You don't have to follow the followers who follow the next exciting thing, even it it has to do with buddhism.

Rather than buy 'stuff' here is a list of 'investments'.

You Are The Eyes of World, Old Man Basking in the Sun, The Supreme Source, The Golden Letters. You can find them on Amazon Books or better still, Booko. I would also add The Bhagavad Gita with commentary.

Are you suitably shocked as yet? What I have written above is essential what is contained in these books, but you will have to find that reality yourself.

[Loren Enders]

You Are The Eyes of World, Old Man Basking in the Sun, The Supreme Source, The Golden Letters. You can find them on Amazon Books or better still, Booko. I would also add The Bhagavad Gita with commentary.

The Bhagavad Gita??? Malcolm might come unglued when he reads that. No offense to anyone of course.

Peace and Love

[Shemmy]

Thanks all for your contributions, comments much appreciated!

It's all come together pretty quickly and very straight forward to me now as to what needs to be done on a procedural level. Thanks for the pms, all very helpful. There's no longer any excuse for me not to start.

Last point by Flavio, particularly good reminder, thanks so much.