Dzogchen Sadhana Practice

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Dzogchen Sadhana Practice

Post by heart » Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:40 pm

smcj wrote:HHDL has written at least one book on Dzogchen yet he does 5 different HYT deity practices daily? That sounds like he doesn't buy the "you only need Dzogchen" line of thinking. Has anyone read his Dzogchen book to see what he says about that?
There is absolutely no contradiction between Dzogchen practice and sadhana practice. Dzogchen is not Zen.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by philji » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:16 pm

heart wrote:
smcj wrote:HHDL has written at least one book on Dzogchen yet he does 5 different HYT deity practices daily? That sounds like he doesn't buy the "you only need Dzogchen" line of thinking. Has anyone read his Dzogchen book to see what he says about that?
There is absolutely no contradiction between Dzogchen practice and sadhana practice. Dzogchen is not Zen.

/magnus
Well said Magnus, so much confusion about dzogchen and sadhanas. So many masters continue sadhana practice and we all know why.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by smcj » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:29 pm

There is absolutely no contradiction between Dzogchen practice and sadhana practice. Dzogchen is not Zen.
The culture here at DW does not see it that way.
So many masters continue sadhana practice and we all know why.
No, I don't think we "all know why". That's why I think it should be discussed.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by MiphamFan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:34 pm

What "culture"?

ChNN also practices his own sadhanas daily. Many Dzogchen masters do so.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by smcj » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:37 pm

MiphamFan wrote:What "culture"?
The culture that is dismissive of the Vajrayana as "lower".
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by MiphamFan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:46 pm

Of course it is lower.

Doesn't mean we don't use it. Internet and science are lower than Hinayana, we still use it. Dzogchen practitioners can practice lower yanas too.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by philji » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:48 pm

MiphamFan wrote:Of course it is lower.

Doesn't mean we don't use it. Internet and science are lower than Hinayana, we still use it. Dzogchen practitioners can practice lower yanas too.
Can you tell me why you would practice " lower tantras" I am curious.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by MiphamFan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:52 pm

You mean lower tantras as in the outer tantras or lower as in those lower than ati but still inner tantras (maha and anu)?

The inner yogas are lower than Ati but their aim is the state of Dzogchen.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by Opulent » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:57 pm

philji wrote:So many masters continue sadhana practice and we all know why.
I'm not sure why. Plenty of Dzogchen and other higher texts and books give the impression that all that is required is the higher practices, yet I consider the Dalai Lama as one of the best examples of a practitioner out there and he clearly doesn't only do them, which got me interested in what he does and why he does them.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by Ayu » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:12 pm

I had the impression, if he talks about his daily practice, he gives us a role-modell for the vigor and joy of practice and for the humbleness also: If he still keeps up these practices, why shouldn't we do the same?
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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by Caodemarte » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:50 pm

Heart wrote: "There is absolutely no contradiction between Dzogchen practice and sadhana practice. Dzogchen is not Zen."

In reference to Zen, what is meant by the reference to Zen contradicting sadhana practice?

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by smcj » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:14 pm

Stepping back, and for a little perspective, even though HHDL practices, promotes, and teaches Dzogchen he is still first and foremost a Gelugpa. So he was not raised in the tradition of the 9 yanas schema that places Dzogchen above and apart from the other 8 yanas. He was raised with the Mahamudra and the Highest Yoga Tantras being the culmination of practice. Highest Yoga Tantra is subdivided into Father, Mother, and Non-Dual (being equivalent to the Maha, Anu, and Ati yogas). I've not heard the kind of rhetoric that says that Mahamudra or the Non-Dual HYT (=Atiyoga/Dzogchen) is somehow separate or otherwise disconnected from the rest of Vajrayana the way Dzogchen is sometimes (not always) discussed in Nyingma. From what I've heard that's a paradigm that is specific to Nyingma and Bön.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by Loren Enders » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:39 pm

The basis for all practice is love, compassion and wisdom. Whatever helps develop bodhicitta in a person is the best practice.

His daily practice is bodhicitta.
'Lorem', 'Loren', 'Loren Enders'

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by smcj » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:40 pm

Loren Enders wrote:The basis for all practice is love, compassion and wisdom. Whatever helps develop bodhicitta in a person is the best practice.

His daily practice is bodhicitta.
:good:
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by heart » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:56 pm

Caodemarte wrote:Heart wrote: "There is absolutely no contradiction between Dzogchen practice and sadhana practice. Dzogchen is not Zen."

In reference to Zen, what is meant by the reference to Zen contradicting sadhana practice?
As we all know the main practice of Zen is staring in to a wall, without moving, in silence, that is not the definition of Dzogchen practice. But of course it can be practiced like that also. Zen practitioners think that sadhana practice is a kind of fantasy.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by heart » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:00 pm

smcj wrote:Stepping back, and for a little perspective, even though HHDL practices, promotes, and teaches Dzogchen he is still first and foremost a Gelugpa. So he was not raised in the tradition of the 9 yanas schema that places Dzogchen above and apart from the other 8 yanas. He was raised with the Mahamudra and the Highest Yoga Tantras being the culmination of practice. Highest Yoga Tantra is subdivided into Father, Mother, and Non-Dual (being equivalent to the Maha, Anu, and Ati yogas). I've not heard the kind of rhetoric that says that Mahamudra or the Non-Dual HYT (=Atiyoga/Dzogchen) is somehow separate or otherwise disconnected from the rest of Vajrayana the way Dzogchen is sometimes (not always) discussed in Nyingma. From what I've heard that's a paradigm that is specific to Nyingma and Bön.
In the Nyingma Dzogchen is always a part of the three inner tantras, but nevertheless the path can also be subdivided into sutra, mantra and dzogchen in order to make certain points.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by MiphamFan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:22 pm

Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and Jamgon Kongtrul were Sarmapas who held Dzogchen to be the basis of all teachings, as taught in Dzogchen tantras.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by smcj » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:27 pm

MiphamFan wrote:Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and Jamgon Kongtrul were Sarmapas who held Dzogchen to be the basis of all teachings, as taught in Dzogchen tantras.
They were both major Rime' lamas of their time. You're not going to find that concession among most Karma Kagyupas. Mahamudra is still their central practice.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by MiphamFan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:29 pm

You can read his autobiography.

Also read his catalogue to the treasury of precious instructions.

Written before you edited your post.

Anyway Dzogchen precisely is Rime. Like Malcolm said, Rime basically means masters of different traditions who practiced Dzogchen.
Last edited by MiphamFan on Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dalai Lama's daily practice - specific details

Post by smcj » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:31 pm

MiphamFan wrote:You can read his autobiography.

Also read his catalogue to the treasury of precious instructions.
Mahamudra is still the central practice of the Sarma traditions. And of course there are the hybrid versions.
Last edited by smcj on Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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