Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 26140
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 07, 2016 7:49 pm

Punya wrote:
What I don't like is marketing the Dharma. 
From my worm's eye view, it just doesn't seem like marketing spin with this teacher. And the message that we look for happiness in all the wrong places is not a bad one. 84000 methods and all that.
There is no happiness in samsara. Not even a needle's breadth.

It is not his fault that Americans are "desperately seeking Susan."

First world problems...anyway, it is not my point to criticize OC, but rather point out how transparent and consumer oriented marketing of Dharma books is. I think Trungpa had a good term for it, "spiritual materialism."

Perhaps I should just accept that we live in a spiritually superficial culture...

phpBB [video]
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Karma_Yeshe
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 3:47 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Karma_Yeshe » Sat May 07, 2016 8:05 pm

Malcolm wrote:
phpBB [video]
There is no happiness in Samsara, but this is hilarious :rolling:

chimechodra
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:37 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by chimechodra » Sat May 07, 2016 8:25 pm

Norwegian wrote: As for Tenzin Wangyal, he has been heavily criticized by the greatest authority on Dzogchen in the Bön tradition, namely Loppon Tendzin Namdhak, for reducing the Bön/Dzogchen teachings down to mere "workshops" and other fluff.
Can you give a source for this?

Norwegian
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Norwegian » Sat May 07, 2016 8:37 pm

chimechodra wrote:
Norwegian wrote: As for Tenzin Wangyal, he has been heavily criticized by the greatest authority on Dzogchen in the Bön tradition, namely Loppon Tendzin Namdhak, for reducing the Bön/Dzogchen teachings down to mere "workshops" and other fluff.
Can you give a source for this?
Ask mutsuk on this forum about this, she knows the details better. Otherwise, ask Jean-Luc Achard.

Punya
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Punya » Sun May 08, 2016 2:48 am

 
There is no happiness in samsara.
Agreed. But maybe that's not the first thing to tell a newcomer. Some may be willing to accept this given time.
There is no happiness in Samsara but this is hilarious.
I can't say I find it all that funny but they do say many Buddhists have no sense of humour :D

It reminds of an Australian series where the guy travelled around the world investigating different religions with the aim of poking fun of them rather than to trying to understand. So much easier to do the latter. Which is not to say there isn't a difference between following a guru and following a cult leader or that some western Buddhists couldn't be more accurately described as groupies.
May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

User avatar
Quay
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Quay » Mon May 16, 2016 6:54 pm

Malcolm wrote:...Dharma just isn't about happiness in this life at all. Anyone who thinks it is, isn't practicing Dharma.
Indeed so.

I was fortunate to meet Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche when he was known as Khen Rinpoche and would agree that in person he's a wonderful teacher. I am not familiar with this book, though.

I hope the titles mentioned are simply something to do with marketing and not content. In this current age I think we need many more vital teachings such as "Razor which Destroys at a Touch" and a whole lot less emphasis on ordinary happiness. The former is rare and precious, the latter seems available in endless varieties.
Bless me and all phantom beings like me
That we may extract the essence of the generation and perfection stages.

– Patrul Rinpoche, Words of My Perfect Teacher.

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4663
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by conebeckham » Mon May 16, 2016 7:24 pm

One thing I've observed is that sometimes these "mass marketing" methods--books addressed to the yoga crowd, or what used to be the New Agers--may be simply a side of a teacher's activity. It is possible that these draw people to study more seriously, and more "traditionally" for lack of a better word.

Frankly, I see Trungpa as the progenitor of this method. The Shambhala teachings were a systematized illustration of this principle. But--I don't know, honestly, if this method will lead to ultimate success.

I've not met Orgyen Chowang. Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is a friend of mine, though. I've heard the criticisms, but I can't determine the long-term view. Authenticity and Depth are not mutually contradictory.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5748
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon May 16, 2016 7:47 pm

conebeckham wrote:One thing I've observed is that sometimes these "mass marketing" methods--books addressed to the yoga crowd, or what used to be the New Agers--may be simply a side of a teacher's activity. It is possible that these draw people to study more seriously, and more "traditionally" for lack of a better word.
Exactly, not everybody is ready for profound teachings like Pudri Rekpung, Khaita Joyful Dances and so on. :smile:
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

User avatar
Harimoo
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:57 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Harimoo » Tue May 17, 2016 11:26 am

IMO the problem is : what do you do if you are desperate ?
To begin a spirtual quest, a certain amount of mental equilibrium is necessary.

Many people in the West (and elsewshere) need to feel a little bit better in their everyday life before to take a step further

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5748
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed May 18, 2016 5:29 pm

Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5748
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue May 24, 2016 7:58 pm

BTW, the book can be previewed at Google Books now:
https://books.google.com/books?id=wg4wDAAAQBAJ
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by ngodrup » Wed May 25, 2016 5:53 am

I'll just say this and leave it alone.
I met him when he first came to America as well.
He spoke very little English, but made up for it
in enthusiasm to try and communicate.

More recently, he's been in my home -- and here
some 20 dharma friends pelted him with questions.
It was a "stump the khenpo" exercise! ;) At that time,
he defined shine, explained different contexts for Lhatong,
distinguished mahamudra from dzogchen, explained purification.
In everything, he quoted Mipham, Longchenpa, Rangzompa, and
others in Tibetan and translated them into English on the fly.
He's not watered down, so to speak.

What I'm saying is, he's a fearless scholar and dzogchen master
who speaks directly from the heart. Isn't it true that the quality
of the teaching depends on the quality of the students and their
questions? The book may or may not have shortcomings, but to
my way of thinking, the book only introduces him to a wider audience.

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5748
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed May 25, 2016 7:27 pm

:good:
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5748
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:15 am

The book comes out tomorrow. Here's an intro from OCR:
http://tricycle.org/dharmatalks/uncover ... tine-mind/
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5748
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:17 am

Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7584
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:12 am

He's coming straight to my town, cool!
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5748
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:17 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:He's coming straight to my town, cool!
Sweet!

Here's the last section of the book, "Homage to Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava":
After many years of study, practice, contemplation, and meditation, thanks to the wisdom teachings of Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava, this book has now been completed. This work has been a tremendous benefit to myself and others. In heartfelt gratitude and devotion for Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava, these words appeared in my mind.

O Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava,
I treasure your enlightened stainless awareness mind.
I am grateful for your boundless compassion.
I trust your majestic clear wisdom.
You are the embodiment of all enlightened ones.
You pour down tremendous love and compassionate teachings to all beings.
You care for all beings limitlessly.
Your enlightened speech is clear, pristine, vast, and profound.
It cools and heals the suffering and unhappiness of every being.
I am so moved by your boundless love and Pristine Mind teachings;
I cannot describe the immeasurable benefits for myself and others.
My gratitude rises from the bottom of my heart.
Without your wisdom and compassion, I cannot imagine
What I would do, what I would be.
O precious master Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava,
Please help me to realize my mind is innately pristine.
Please help me to realize my mental events are just mental events.
Please help me to realize my mental events are illusions.
Please help me to completely awaken my Pristine Mind.
Please always pour down the nectar of your compassion and wisdom teachings
Until all beings’ unhappiness and suffering end.
May all beings’ minds become pristine and flawless.
May all beings attain completely perfect enlightenment.
Until then, please hold all beings with your infinite love and compassion.
OM AH HUNG BENZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 8978
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by DGA » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:21 pm

One of the highlights of his training occurred in 1987 when Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche travelled with 10,000 Tibetans to WuTaiShan (Manjushri Mountain) in eastern China on a three-month pilgrimage with Jigmed Phuntsok Rinpoche where he visited Buddhist sacred locations and received very precious teachings and transmissions on Longchenpa’s Seven Treasures as well as on Khenpo Jigmed Phuntsok Rinpoche’s own Manjushri Dzogchen treasure teachings.
http://pristinemind.org/about-us/orgyen ... -rinpoche/

I wonder of OCR ever gives the transmission of the Manjusri terma of Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok. Anyone here know? I'm going to ask his org too.

ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by ngodrup » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:40 am

If you have the text,
I'm nearly certain he'd give you the lung.

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 8978
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by DGA » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:57 pm

ngodrup wrote:If you have the text,
I'm nearly certain he'd give you the lung.
That's super helpful, thank you. I know that Chagdud Gonpa / Padma Publishing has a translation available...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: climb-up, Dorje Shedrub, meepits, PeterC and 42 guests