Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

DGA
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by DGA » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:03 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
DGA wrote:I hope a lot of people buy that book, read it, and make a favorable connection. Then I hope they sell all those copies to used bookstores so I can get an inexpensive copy.
Well, I'm sure you could use The Offering Bowl or something like that to finance the purchase of a copy right now.
nah, I have plenty of reading to do for now. besides...

I'm not destitute anymore, I just prefer to buy used books.

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mindyourmind
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by mindyourmind » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:20 pm

I've just finished this book.
Light but inspiring. Recommended.
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:31 am

Just thought I'd point out that there's a webcast tomorrow, November 26th 1 PM-2 PM PST:
https://pristinemind.org/programs/1153/ ... n-program/
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:29 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:Just thought I'd point out that there's a webcast tomorrow, November 26th 1 PM-2 PM PST:
https://pristinemind.org/programs/1153/ ... n-program/
Just a reminder,this is happening in 3.5 hours.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:03 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Just thought I'd point out that there's a webcast tomorrow, November 26th 1 PM-2 PM PST:
https://pristinemind.org/programs/1153/ ... n-program/
Just a reminder,this is happening in 3.5 hours.
It's on.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:24 am

I watched the webcast and did the meditation.

So pristine mind is nothing more than stopping thinking? Surely, at best, it's only a meditation on the conventional nature of the mind ('clarity'). It seems directionless and not very profound! (sorry!).

I can see that it's relaxing but Bodhichitta is far more splendorous and beneficial.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:36 pm

New Year's Day teaching:

phpBB [video]
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by DGA » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:00 pm

Tsongkhapafan wrote:I watched the webcast and did the meditation.

So pristine mind is nothing more than stopping thinking? Surely, at best, it's only a meditation on the conventional nature of the mind ('clarity'). It seems directionless and not very profound! (sorry!).
No, "clarity" in this context does not refer to the conventional nature of mind. Here is a discussion in which one party promotes a meditation on a conventional object of mind, a so-called "generic image."

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 60#p368782

I can't speak for Orgyen Chowang, but generally "clarity" is used to translate the Tibetan term lhundrub, which denotes something that is not limited to the conventional mind. It would be worth your time to investigate the Tibetan concepts kadag and lhundrub.

If you are accustomed to the highly structured programs characteristic of a cult, then yes, this material will likely seem directionless and open-ended to you.
I can see that it's relaxing but Bodhichitta is far more splendorous and beneficial.
Are you referring to conventional or ultimate bodhicitta? the answer to your question about clarity and the point I was making about lhundrub in some respects depends on your answer to this question

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by florin » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:17 pm

DGA wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:I watched the webcast and did the meditation.

So pristine mind is nothing more than stopping thinking? Surely, at best, it's only a meditation on the conventional nature of the mind ('clarity'). It seems directionless and not very profound! (sorry!).
No, "clarity" in this context does not refer to the conventional nature of mind. Here is a discussion in which one party promotes a meditation on a conventional object of mind, a so-called "generic image."

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 60#p368782

I can't speak for Orgyen Chowang, but generally "clarity" is used to translate the Tibetan term lhundrub, which denotes something that is not limited to the conventional mind. It would be worth your time to investigate the Tibetan concepts kadag and lhundrub.

If you are accustomed to the highly structured programs characteristic of a cult, then yes, this material will likely seem directionless and open-ended to you.
I can see that it's relaxing but Bodhichitta is far more splendorous and beneficial.
Are you referring to conventional or ultimate bodhicitta? the answer to your question about clarity and the point I was making about lhundrub in some respects depends on your answer to this question
i knew lhundrup to mean something quite different

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Malcolm
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:24 pm

florin wrote:
DGA wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:I watched the webcast and did the meditation.

So pristine mind is nothing more than stopping thinking? Surely, at best, it's only a meditation on the conventional nature of the mind ('clarity'). It seems directionless and not very profound! (sorry!).
No, "clarity" in this context does not refer to the conventional nature of mind. Here is a discussion in which one party promotes a meditation on a conventional object of mind, a so-called "generic image."

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 60#p368782

I can't speak for Orgyen Chowang, but generally "clarity" is used to translate the Tibetan term lhundrub, which denotes something that is not limited to the conventional mind. It would be worth your time to investigate the Tibetan concepts kadag and lhundrub.

If you are accustomed to the highly structured programs characteristic of a cult, then yes, this material will likely seem directionless and open-ended to you.
I can see that it's relaxing but Bodhichitta is far more splendorous and beneficial.
Are you referring to conventional or ultimate bodhicitta? the answer to your question about clarity and the point I was making about lhundrub in some respects depends on your answer to this question
i knew lhundrup to mean something quite different
I think DGA is referring to the clarity which belongs to the nature, lhun grub. This clarity [gsal ba] is not the same as the various kinds of clarity that belong to the three realms, and can also be referred to as 'od gsal, luminosity; or zang thal, pellucidity.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:06 pm

DGA wrote:
No, "clarity" in this context does not refer to the conventional nature of mind.
That's what the meditation was on.
Are you referring to conventional or ultimate bodhicitta? the answer to your question about clarity and the point I was making about lhundrub in some respects depends on your answer to this question
Both are wonderfully profound.

Also, you cannot realise the ultimate nature of the mind by meditating on its conventional nature. You can meditate on clarity for a thousand years but you will never realise emptiness.

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Malcolm
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:01 am

Tsongkhapafan wrote:
DGA wrote:
No, "clarity" in this context does not refer to the conventional nature of mind.
That's what the meditation was on.
Are you referring to conventional or ultimate bodhicitta? the answer to your question about clarity and the point I was making about lhundrub in some respects depends on your answer to this question
Both are wonderfully profound.

Also, you cannot realise the ultimate nature of the mind by meditating on its conventional nature. You can meditate on clarity for a thousand years but you will never realise emptiness.
Whatever happened to your union of two truths.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by kukuripa » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:15 pm

I have not read this thread,but I found this today on vimeo
Our Pristine Mind
https://vimeo.com/205333107

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:39 pm

OCR at Google:

phpBB [video]
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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aflatun
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by aflatun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:13 am

Pardon my ignorance all, but perhaps you could clarify something for me. He seems to imply that one can follow the instructions and in time experience Pristine Mind:
In facilitating that increasingly clear view of our mind, this meditation leads us to "realization"- a realization of what our mind truly is and who we really are.

Once thoughts and emotions subside, we are left with the experience of Pristine Mind. You need to experience it for yourself. And this meditation is the way to accomplish that.
Doesn't this require direct introduction 99.99999% of the time? Wouldn't it be more correct to characterize what he's describing as objectless shamatha or similar?

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:37 am

aflatun wrote:Pardon my ignorance all, but perhaps you could clarify something for me. He seems to imply that one can follow the instructions and in time experience Pristine Mind:
In facilitating that increasingly clear view of our mind, this meditation leads us to "realization"- a realization of what our mind truly is and who we really are.

Once thoughts and emotions subside, we are left with the experience of Pristine Mind. You need to experience it for yourself. And this meditation is the way to accomplish that.
Doesn't this require direct introduction 99.99999% of the time? Wouldn't it be more correct to characterize what he's describing as objectless shamatha or similar?
The book is just an introduction to something for a general, not necessarily even Buddhist, audience. At one point in it he quotes Guru Rinpoche approvingly as follows:
Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava says:
If you want to perceive the nature of reality, then you need a qualified spiritual master.
and goes on to say:
When both of these conditions are met—the qualified teacher and the qualified student—then the Pristine Mind experience, unconditional happiness, and ultimate enlightenment can manifest.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by aflatun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:49 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
aflatun wrote:Pardon my ignorance all, but perhaps you could clarify something for me. He seems to imply that one can follow the instructions and in time experience Pristine Mind:
In facilitating that increasingly clear view of our mind, this meditation leads us to "realization"- a realization of what our mind truly is and who we really are.

Once thoughts and emotions subside, we are left with the experience of Pristine Mind. You need to experience it for yourself. And this meditation is the way to accomplish that.
Doesn't this require direct introduction 99.99999% of the time? Wouldn't it be more correct to characterize what he's describing as objectless shamatha or similar?
The book is just an introduction to something for a general, not necessarily even Buddhist, audience. At one point in it he quotes Guru Rinpoche approvingly as follows:
Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava says:
If you want to perceive the nature of reality, then you need a qualified spiritual master.
and goes on to say:
When both of these conditions are met—the qualified teacher and the qualified student—then the Pristine Mind experience, unconditional happiness, and ultimate enlightenment can manifest.
Thank you for the response. I seem to recall something of the sort, but despite that I ask because most of the book seems explanatory and prescriptive. So then I'm incorrect, what he's describing is not objectless shamatha but actual abiding in rig pa (with the assumption that the reader cannot "follow the book" without a teacher of course?)

Thank you in advance.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Yudron » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:44 am

aflatun wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
aflatun wrote:Pardon my ignorance all, but perhaps you could clarify something for me. He seems to imply that one can follow the instructions and in time experience Pristine Mind:



Doesn't this require direct introduction 99.99999% of the time? Wouldn't it be more correct to characterize what he's describing as objectless shamatha or similar?
The book is just an introduction to something for a general, not necessarily even Buddhist, audience. At one point in it he quotes Guru Rinpoche approvingly as follows:
Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava says:
If you want to perceive the nature of reality, then you need a qualified spiritual master.
and goes on to say:
When both of these conditions are met—the qualified teacher and the qualified student—then the Pristine Mind experience, unconditional happiness, and ultimate enlightenment can manifest.
Thank you for the response. I seem to recall something of the sort, but despite that I ask because most of the book seems explanatory and prescriptive. So then I'm incorrect, what he's describing is not objectless shamatha but actual abiding in rig pa (with the assumption that the reader cannot "follow the book" without a teacher of course?)

Thank you in advance.
Pristine Mind Meditation is Rinpoche's name for the mind class of the Great Perfection. Dzogchen Semde.

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aflatun
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by aflatun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:32 pm

Yudron wrote:
aflatun wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
The book is just an introduction to something for a general, not necessarily even Buddhist, audience. At one point in it he quotes Guru Rinpoche approvingly as follows:

and goes on to say:
Thank you for the response. I seem to recall something of the sort, but despite that I ask because most of the book seems explanatory and prescriptive. So then I'm incorrect, what he's describing is not objectless shamatha but actual abiding in rig pa (with the assumption that the reader cannot "follow the book" without a teacher of course?)

Thank you in advance.
Pristine Mind Meditation is Rinpoche's name for the mind class of the Great Perfection. Dzogchen Semde.
Thank you kindly for the response, I will have to do some back reading on this to understand more fully

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