Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

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dzogchungpa
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Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu May 05, 2016 1:53 am

The first book from the SF Bay Area's very own Marinpoche:
http://www.shambhala.com/our-pristine-mind.html

Should be worth a read. :smile:
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu May 05, 2016 1:59 am

dzogchungpa wrote:The first book from the SF Bay Area's very own Marinpoche:
http://www.shambhala.com/our-pristine-mind.html

Should be worth a read. :smile:

Looks good, I have wanted to catch a teaching with him in person but never made it.
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Punya » Thu May 05, 2016 9:53 am

Looks good, I have wanted to catch a teaching with him in person but never made it.
Well worth the effort if you have the opportunity to attend a live teaching. I wish he still visited my part of the world.
May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu May 05, 2016 4:36 pm

Punya wrote:Well worth the effort if you have the opportunity to attend a live teaching.
Agreed, he is a truly a great teacher.
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu May 05, 2016 5:16 pm

Punya wrote:
Looks good, I have wanted to catch a teaching with him in person but never made it.
Well worth the effort if you have the opportunity to attend a live teaching. I wish he still visited my part of the world.

I will try to make it happen.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri May 06, 2016 3:02 am

An interesting account from a comment by well-known book editor Kendra Crossen Burroughs on Charles Tart's blog:
I have been editing a book by Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche from San Francisco, called Our Pristine Mind (forthcoming from Shambhala), which is written without foreign terms, but it is obviously about rigpa and the natural pristine state of awareness. At the beginning of the project, something happened that was spontaneous, unsought, and unexplainable. I woke up in the night and got up for water, and (I don’t know if this is related to the experience, but I’ll mention it) on the way back to bed I paused at the glass doors to the backyard because I could see the brightly shining full moon and I wanted to gaze at it for a minute and “take it in.” Then I went right back to bed. The minute I lay down I was in Pristine Mind. There was absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever. The state continued for about 3 hours (I finally looked at the clock when I heard someone in the house get up). It is everything they say, and more. I don’t know if it’s “reality,” but I hope so. There were almost no “mental events,” just totally happy, timeless awareness. I didn’t think “This is majestic,” but the description majestic or grand is true–it was not “no big deal” (at the time i knew it was something special) and not like a flow state, which I have experienced. It was a wonderful “peek experience” that just happened without doing the meditation. I wouldn’t call it “ordinary,” but it felt natural and normal. If someone hasn’t had the experience, it’s true they can’t really know what it is, but I don’t think the Tibetans are exaggerating at all; I believe them. It seems reasonable that if one wants to experience it, especially in a more permanent way, dedicated practice is necessary. The book, Our Pristine Mind, also gives a detailed description of the definition of enlightenment in 4 stages from a work by the 19th c. master Mipham Rinpoche. Look for the book in late Spring 2016.
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Punya » Fri May 06, 2016 9:59 pm

I think it should be said that Khenpo Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche is a meditation master in the Nyingma lineage. He studied for ten years at Larung Gar in Serta, eastern Tibet, with his teacher, the great Jigmed Phuntsok Rinpoche, who is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest Dzogchen masters of the 20th century.

He was brought to the west by Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and soon after began teaching at Lama Tharchin Rinpoche and Traleg Rinpoche's centres. He now has strong connections to Shambhala as well.

I have attended teachings by Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche and I found him to have an extraordinary presence which videos, etc simply can't convey. My impression is that he is bringing the Dzogchen teachings to the west in a different and accessible way.
May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri May 06, 2016 10:14 pm

Punya wrote:I have attended teachings by Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche and I found him to have an extraordinary presence which videos, etc simply can't convey.
Indeed.
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 07, 2016 2:17 am

I met Orgyen Chowang when he first came to the US, back in 1998.

But it seems that now his teachings are the usual pap for the Barnes and Nobles crowd.

Frankly, it gets a bit nauseating to see Dharma teaching after Dharma teaching such as:

Happiness Depends On Your Mind
Cultivating The Power of Love and Compassion
The Way of Living: Ten Principles to Attract Positive Circumstances Into Your Life

etc.

I guess people in the US are just not attracted to teachings such as:

Razor which Destroys at a Touch
Shock and Awe
Severance
Taking out the Red Channel of Life.
etc.

Dont get me wrong, I think OC is a super nice person. It just troubles me to see someone so educated catering to such new age tripe.

Dharma just isn't about happiness in this life at all. Anyone who thinks it is, isn't practicing Dharma.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat May 07, 2016 3:20 am

Many people will never move beyond the "happiness in this lifetime" as a goal. Good or bad, that is just true. There are some people IMO who just can't believe liberation is a real thing, in this lifetime at least.

That being the case, I'm glad that there are Dharma teachers who skilfully put out these kinds of presentations, anything that truly eases people's afflictions is a good thing, even if it doesn't go as far as some Dharma practitioners would want it to. BTW, do you object this strongly to books by HHDL along similar lines? There are plenty of those too.
I guess people in the US are just not attracted to teachings such as:

Razor which Destroys at a Touch
Shock and Awe
Severance
Taking out the Red Channel of Life.
Obviously yes, at this stage people who are interested in traditional presentations..maybe it's fair to say people who can even follow traditional presentations with patience, are a minority.

I've had the experience of reading books by a certain teacher which I believed were "new agey" in the beginning, at first found the language so cloying at times I thought I was done, that ended up being some of my most treasured reads in the end, and got me interested in more in depth teachings from them. While I'm no scholar, I don't shy away from reading traditional stuff either, yet I feel like there is room for "plain language" explanations of basic Dharma concepts without pigeonholing them all as new-age fluff.
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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Lhasa » Sat May 07, 2016 12:50 pm

Somebody has got to teach the 'Barnes&Noble-Starbucks-Yuppie-Yogi' crowd. I saw this Lama live on TWR's stream last year.
He has no problem transmitting through a computer screen. My computer rebooted itself right in the middle of his teaching. He is very powerful. And in his introduction to this book, he talks about language and how what he was teaching got mangled using a translator, how he learned English and searched for a way to use words that convey his intent and connected to those he was teaching. This is not fluff.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Norwegian » Sat May 07, 2016 1:09 pm

Lhasa wrote:Somebody has got to teach the 'Barnes&Noble-Starbucks-Yuppie-Yogi' crowd. I saw this Lama live on TWR's stream last year.
He has no problem transmitting through a computer screen. My computer rebooted itself right in the middle of his teaching. He is very powerful. And in his introduction to this book, he talks about language and how what he was teaching got mangled using a translator, how he learned English and searched for a way to use words that convey his intent and connected to those he was teaching. This is not fluff.
I'm afraid that just means your computer has issues, whether related to software or hardware...

As for Tenzin Wangyal, he has been heavily criticized by the greatest authority on Dzogchen in the Bön tradition, namely Loppon Tendzin Namdhak, for reducing the Bön/Dzogchen teachings down to mere "workshops" and other fluff.

So Malcolm's remarks above are also echoed by actual masters who do not exactly approve of this direction.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 07, 2016 1:21 pm

Lhasa wrote:Somebody has got to teach the 'Barnes&Noble-Starbucks-Yuppie-Yogi' crowd. I saw this Lama live on TWR's stream last year.
He has no problem transmitting through a computer screen. My computer rebooted itself right in the middle of his teaching. He is very powerful. And in his introduction to this book, he talks about language and how what he was teaching got mangled using a translator, how he learned English and searched for a way to use words that convey his intent and connected to those he was teaching. This is not fluff.
I was primarily reacting to the titles of his public talks and what not, not to his book.

Even so, it seems that many Lamas feels compelled to do "a book," because if they don't, they won't reach any students.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat May 07, 2016 2:43 pm

Now, now, Malcolm, your kleshas are showing.

:oops:

Malcolm wrote:I guess people in the US are just not attracted to teachings such as:

Razor which Destroys at a Touch ...
I'm kind of attracted to "Razor which Destroys at a Touch". :smile:


Anyway, let me quote Lama Tharchin Rinpoche, as quoted here:
It is my heart wish that you come and make a connection with Khen Rinpoche (Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche) as he is truly special. Our lord of refuge Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche has said that this khenpo is unlike any other – really genuine. Not only is his knowledge vast, but he brought this into his experience, so that when he teaches he talks from his heart, which brings authentic penetration.
In my experience, this is really true.
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 07, 2016 2:51 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:Now, now, Malcolm, your kleshas are showing.

Just one big bundle of kleshas, I guess.

Anyway, as I said, I have met this teacher, and I like him.

What I don't like is marketing the Dharma. Thank goodness he did not put a Buddha or some teacher on the cover of his new book. That is a practice I find particularly abhorrent.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by MiphamFan » Sat May 07, 2016 3:16 pm

I don't know but IMO having legitimate teachers reach out to the non-Buddhist community interested in meditation and spirituality can be a good thing. I really don't think it's marketing the dharma per se, they can at least reach out to the mindfulness etc crowd, better than letting amateurs and tirthikas do it.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by florin » Sat May 07, 2016 4:39 pm

Malcolm wrote: Anyway, as I said, I have met this teacher, and I like him.

What I don't like is marketing the Dharma. Thank goodness he did not put a Buddha or some teacher on the cover of his new book. That is a practice I find particularly abhorrent.
Malcolm wrote: And you should by my book, Buddhahood in This Life, when it is released by Wisdom next December.
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 07, 2016 5:06 pm

florin wrote:
Malcolm wrote: Anyway, as I said, I have met this teacher, and I like him.

What I don't like is marketing the Dharma. Thank goodness he did not put a Buddha or some teacher on the cover of his new book. That is a practice I find particularly abhorrent.
Malcolm wrote: And you should by my book, Buddhahood in This Life, when it is released by Wisdom next December.
Yes, florin, it is understood that you do not like me. It's ok.

In this case, I was responding to a specific question.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by gad rgyangs » Sat May 07, 2016 6:15 pm

Malcolm wrote:
florin wrote:
Malcolm wrote: Anyway, as I said, I have met this teacher, and I like him.

What I don't like is marketing the Dharma. Thank goodness he did not put a Buddha or some teacher on the cover of his new book. That is a practice I find particularly abhorrent.
Malcolm wrote: And you should by my book, Buddhahood in This Life, when it is released by Wisdom next December.
Yes, florin, it is understood that you do not like me. It's ok.

In this case, I was responding to a specific question.
I've got it in my Amazon cart so I will know right away when its available!
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25

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Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Punya » Sat May 07, 2016 7:05 pm

What I don't like is marketing the Dharma. 
From my worm's eye view, it just doesn't seem like marketing spin with this teacher. And the message that we look for happiness in all the wrong places is not a bad one. 84000 methods and all that.
May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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