Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Malcolm »

Punya wrote:
What I don't like is marketing the Dharma. 
From my worm's eye view, it just doesn't seem like marketing spin with this teacher. And the message that we look for happiness in all the wrong places is not a bad one. 84000 methods and all that.
There is no happiness in samsara. Not even a needle's breadth.

It is not his fault that Americans are "desperately seeking Susan."

First world problems...anyway, it is not my point to criticize OC, but rather point out how transparent and consumer oriented marketing of Dharma books is. I think Trungpa had a good term for it, "spiritual materialism."

Perhaps I should just accept that we live in a spiritually superficial culture...

phpBB [video]
User avatar
Karma_Yeshe
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 3:47 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

Malcolm wrote:
phpBB [video]
There is no happiness in Samsara, but this is hilarious :rolling:
chimechodra
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:37 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by chimechodra »

Norwegian wrote: As for Tenzin Wangyal, he has been heavily criticized by the greatest authority on Dzogchen in the Bön tradition, namely Loppon Tendzin Namdhak, for reducing the Bön/Dzogchen teachings down to mere "workshops" and other fluff.
Can you give a source for this?
Norwegian
Posts: 2632
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Norwegian »

chimechodra wrote:
Norwegian wrote: As for Tenzin Wangyal, he has been heavily criticized by the greatest authority on Dzogchen in the Bön tradition, namely Loppon Tendzin Namdhak, for reducing the Bön/Dzogchen teachings down to mere "workshops" and other fluff.
Can you give a source for this?
Ask mutsuk on this forum about this, she knows the details better. Otherwise, ask Jean-Luc Achard.
Punya
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Punya »

 
There is no happiness in samsara.
Agreed. But maybe that's not the first thing to tell a newcomer. Some may be willing to accept this given time.
There is no happiness in Samsara but this is hilarious.
I can't say I find it all that funny but they do say many Buddhists have no sense of humour :D

It reminds of an Australian series where the guy travelled around the world investigating different religions with the aim of poking fun of them rather than to trying to understand. So much easier to do the latter. Which is not to say there isn't a difference between following a guru and following a cult leader or that some western Buddhists couldn't be more accurately described as groupies.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
User avatar
Quay
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Quay »

Malcolm wrote:...Dharma just isn't about happiness in this life at all. Anyone who thinks it is, isn't practicing Dharma.
Indeed so.

I was fortunate to meet Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche when he was known as Khen Rinpoche and would agree that in person he's a wonderful teacher. I am not familiar with this book, though.

I hope the titles mentioned are simply something to do with marketing and not content. In this current age I think we need many more vital teachings such as "Razor which Destroys at a Touch" and a whole lot less emphasis on ordinary happiness. The former is rare and precious, the latter seems available in endless varieties.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.
User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 5714
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by conebeckham »

One thing I've observed is that sometimes these "mass marketing" methods--books addressed to the yoga crowd, or what used to be the New Agers--may be simply a side of a teacher's activity. It is possible that these draw people to study more seriously, and more "traditionally" for lack of a better word.

Frankly, I see Trungpa as the progenitor of this method. The Shambhala teachings were a systematized illustration of this principle. But--I don't know, honestly, if this method will lead to ultimate success.

I've not met Orgyen Chowang. Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is a friend of mine, though. I've heard the criticisms, but I can't determine the long-term view. Authenticity and Depth are not mutually contradictory.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa »

conebeckham wrote:One thing I've observed is that sometimes these "mass marketing" methods--books addressed to the yoga crowd, or what used to be the New Agers--may be simply a side of a teacher's activity. It is possible that these draw people to study more seriously, and more "traditionally" for lack of a better word.
Exactly, not everybody is ready for profound teachings like Pudri Rekpung, Khaita Joyful Dances and so on. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
User avatar
Harimoo
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:57 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Harimoo »

IMO the problem is : what do you do if you are desperate ?
To begin a spirtual quest, a certain amount of mental equilibrium is necessary.

Many people in the West (and elsewshere) need to feel a little bit better in their everyday life before to take a step further
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa »

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa »

BTW, the book can be previewed at Google Books now:
https://books.google.com/books?id=wg4wDAAAQBAJ
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by ngodrup »

I'll just say this and leave it alone.
I met him when he first came to America as well.
He spoke very little English, but made up for it
in enthusiasm to try and communicate.

More recently, he's been in my home -- and here
some 20 dharma friends pelted him with questions.
It was a "stump the khenpo" exercise! ;) At that time,
he defined shine, explained different contexts for Lhatong,
distinguished mahamudra from dzogchen, explained purification.
In everything, he quoted Mipham, Longchenpa, Rangzompa, and
others in Tibetan and translated them into English on the fly.
He's not watered down, so to speak.

What I'm saying is, he's a fearless scholar and dzogchen master
who speaks directly from the heart. Isn't it true that the quality
of the teaching depends on the quality of the students and their
questions? The book may or may not have shortcomings, but to
my way of thinking, the book only introduces him to a wider audience.
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa »

:good:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa »

The book comes out tomorrow. Here's an intro from OCR:
http://tricycle.org/dharmatalks/uncover ... tine-mind/
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa »

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

He's coming straight to my town, cool!
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by dzogchungpa »

Johnny Dangerous wrote:He's coming straight to my town, cool!
Sweet!

Here's the last section of the book, "Homage to Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava":
After many years of study, practice, contemplation, and meditation, thanks to the wisdom teachings of Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava, this book has now been completed. This work has been a tremendous benefit to myself and others. In heartfelt gratitude and devotion for Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava, these words appeared in my mind.

O Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava,
I treasure your enlightened stainless awareness mind.
I am grateful for your boundless compassion.
I trust your majestic clear wisdom.
You are the embodiment of all enlightened ones.
You pour down tremendous love and compassionate teachings to all beings.
You care for all beings limitlessly.
Your enlightened speech is clear, pristine, vast, and profound.
It cools and heals the suffering and unhappiness of every being.
I am so moved by your boundless love and Pristine Mind teachings;
I cannot describe the immeasurable benefits for myself and others.
My gratitude rises from the bottom of my heart.
Without your wisdom and compassion, I cannot imagine
What I would do, what I would be.
O precious master Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava,
Please help me to realize my mind is innately pristine.
Please help me to realize my mental events are just mental events.
Please help me to realize my mental events are illusions.
Please help me to completely awaken my Pristine Mind.
Please always pour down the nectar of your compassion and wisdom teachings
Until all beings’ unhappiness and suffering end.
May all beings’ minds become pristine and flawless.
May all beings attain completely perfect enlightenment.
Until then, please hold all beings with your infinite love and compassion.
OM AH HUNG BENZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9466
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by DGA »

One of the highlights of his training occurred in 1987 when Orgyen Chowang Rinpoche travelled with 10,000 Tibetans to WuTaiShan (Manjushri Mountain) in eastern China on a three-month pilgrimage with Jigmed Phuntsok Rinpoche where he visited Buddhist sacred locations and received very precious teachings and transmissions on Longchenpa’s Seven Treasures as well as on Khenpo Jigmed Phuntsok Rinpoche’s own Manjushri Dzogchen treasure teachings.
http://pristinemind.org/about-us/orgyen ... -rinpoche/

I wonder of OCR ever gives the transmission of the Manjusri terma of Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok. Anyone here know? I'm going to ask his org too.
ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by ngodrup »

If you have the text,
I'm nearly certain he'd give you the lung.
DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9466
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Our Pristine Mind - Orgyen Chowang's new book

Post by DGA »

ngodrup wrote:If you have the text,
I'm nearly certain he'd give you the lung.
That's super helpful, thank you. I know that Chagdud Gonpa / Padma Publishing has a translation available...
Post Reply

Return to “Dzogchen”