Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Soma999
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Soma999 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:39 pm

Hello,

Maybe to give another view, tobacco is empty. What is important, from my point of view, is what kind of tobacco do you use, and how do you use it, how do you relate to it.

For exemple, there are many kind of tobacco, and many way to use it.

There is a wild species with a lot of active principle, a very potentent variety "nicotiana rustica" used in the Amazon.
There is "nicotiana tabacum", which is used for cigarettes etc...

Also, there are different kind of tobacco, even from the same variety. The tobacco we found in cigarettes in in fact very recent. It is prepared (dried) in one week, and as it has a soft taste, you can inhale it.

If you take black tobacco -much more ancient, and generally used for pipe and cigars smokers -, it has fermented for month, and as it has a strong taste, generally you just keep it in your mouth.

Tobacco also is often mixed with a tonos af additives, which make it a deadly poison when smoked as "regular" cigarettes.

Tobacco can be taken in a variety of way. It can be smoked - i guess no one learn something there - but it can also be drank, like a "tobacco tea". It can be used in ritual to remove bad energy (produce vomiting), if the person has the particular skillful means for that, it can make you travel.
It can be used in diet - with a real curandero - to transorm the mental, and dissolve a lot of negativity and bring protection, and develop a "masculine side".

When we comes on different tradition, generally it is smoked with pipes, and it can have different effects. There are pipes for healing, or for working with different kind of spirits (water spirits etc). There are also "community pipe", hold by spiritual chief, which can have different purpose. I remember a book about one of those pipe holder : his pipe has the power to reveal truth. When people smoke it, truth manifest, and everything based upon lies dissolved (beware before smoking it !).

If someone don't want to quit tobacco, maybe this person may learn to at least make it spiritual : blow prayers on tobacco, and transform the smoke as an offering, and as a way to carry your intention to the invisible worlds.

Even just meditating with the tobacco plants can be interesting.

But of course, taking cigarettes, no intention, bring no where and can impact negativily health.

I know a master who smoke, and it's ritualised, even if on the external plane nothing is shown.

There are a lot of power in this plant, but it can also be dangerous.

Considering weed, know that some sadhus smoke it, and some who do are far from being "beginner yogis". It can have different purpose, i don't think we should talk about it here. Still, at least, it requieres to use it correctly a deep energy and for exemple a strong capacity to maintain an asana, a long and powerful meditation. The yogi smoke the plant. But most of people who smoke this plant are in fact smoked by the plants.

It's like with alcohol. Many are being drank by the alcohol. The spirit of alcohol rejoice in their body, and they control nothing.

Substance is powerful, but also potentialy dangerous. It depends a lot on intention and energy work. Still, very interesting.

Tobacco is sacred in nearly all american indians. Too bad the body of tobacco was taken and corrupted in cigarettes, and its spirit lye somewhere, abandonned...

Crazywisdom
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Crazywisdom » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:08 pm

Anything these dudes say about tobacco is bullshit bc it's from America not Tibet so Tibetan dakinis have nothing to do with it. If you want to practice appeasing local deities in the Americas there's no better substance to burn because that's what the natives have done for far longer than Tibetans had religion.
El Perdedor

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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Crazywisdom » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:10 pm

tiagolps wrote:
bfaus wrote:
tiagolps wrote:Smoking causes back pain while I meditate, compared to weeks when I don't smoke, were there doesn't seem to be any pain.
Nagas and termas aside, thats clear indication that smoking harms my practice.


Thank you for sharing your experience. Can you clarify for me, when you say 'smoking', do you mean cigarettes or pipes?


Any tobacco smoke that enters your lungs,


Pipes and cigars aren't inhaled.
El Perdedor

Crazywisdom
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Crazywisdom » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:13 pm

Simon E. wrote:Smoking tobacco is a very bad idea. Bad for physical health. Bad for psychological health. Bad for the bank balance.
Yet...two of my teachers smoked. One still might.
One of them is fairly obvious. The other is/was Lama Chime who liked a good cigar.

Its almost like the teachers like being provocative.. :o


A good cigar now and then won't destroy any naga cities.
El Perdedor

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Wayfarer
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Wayfarer » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:05 am

I was a long-time smoker, finally rid myself of the habit about 20 years ago, although still used to binge sometimes. But the thing I really didn't like about it, was that because it was a habit, it owned me. How many days I would get up and say 'I'm not going to smoke today', but then I would just be compelled to buy cigarettes or ask someone for a cigarette, and it would begin allover again. That went on for years! Pathetic, and I offer no excuses for it, but I would say to anyone, if you can get tobacco out of your life, you will be far better off for it.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

Crazywisdom
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Crazywisdom » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:25 am

Habit = bad
El Perdedor

bfaus
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby bfaus » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:54 am

It appears that some people have not understood the original intent of this post, nor did they read what I wrote. I do not smoke cigarettes. I do not inhale pipe tobacco. I smoke a pipe now and again. I do not feel compelled, or owned by it. It is not a habit. It is something I enjoy from time to time, but to me it's not a huge deal (think of why you choose to eat a particular dish over another...it's similar to that). My concern was regarding the effect it can have on my ability to recognize/rest in the natural state, on a more subtle energetic level. I, myself have not been able to notice an impact either way.....but I might be unable to detect this impact at this point.

Reading some of the texts that were posted in this thread seem concerning to me. I have read through the thread about smoking. From that I got what ChNN said, "try to quit, but if you can't, do guru yoga when you do". Again though, this applies to cigarette smokers, though in the past when I have had a pipe I follow the guidance regardless.

I appreciate the feedback and information from those of you who provided it. I am refraining from having pipes at this time, which hasn't been difficult to do so, to see if I can notice a difference.

shaunc
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby shaunc » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:09 am

It's up to you what you do. I was a heavy cigarette smoker for many years. Eventually I started using Swedish snus and a pipe after work. I now smoke a pipe of an evening and weekends only and I'm happy with that although other people would say I'm just as addicted as I ever was. Luckily for me I don't really care that much what anyone else thinks. Just in case anyone is interested. Today is Sunday (father's day ) I smoked a pipe after a bacon and eggs breakfast cooked by my non Buddhist but still long suffering wife. I smoked a 2nd pipe at my oldest son's home where we went for coffee after lunch and at the moment it's 7.00pm and a bit chilly outside and I'm tossing up whether to have pipe number 3 for the day or not and regardless of what I choose I really don't believe that it will make me any better or worse as a practicing Buddhist.
Just to let you know. Asian countries in general have a very high (compared to the western world ) tobacco consumption rate and they also probably have a generally higher practicing Buddhist rate than the western world.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

M.G.
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby M.G. » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:28 am

I think we can all agree smoking tobacco is pretty bad for practice.

Is a diet high in sugar an obstacle to practice?

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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Ayu » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:52 am

When I quit smoking 20 years ago, it was a great relief - and I found out, smoking was an obstacle to my meditation practice, as well as to my enjoyment of life, to my physical fitness, to my voice's volume and to my optimistic mood. Let alone better smell and feeling free.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby javier.espinoza.t » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:28 pm

bfaus wrote:Please forgive my ignorant question, but it is sincere.

Is smoking pipe tobacco an obstacle to realization, in and of itself? I have read a post: http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... it=Tobacco. This seems to point to 'yes', Can a senior student of the DC confirm this for me?

Note that pipe smoking, in this context, doesn't equate to smoking cigarettes, or inhaling tobacco, or even compulsory smoking.

Thank you!


It depends,

if you live in state of contemplation -this means you are a dzogpachenpo- means that there is no restriction -kuntusangpo-.

If you are an atiyoga aspirant and practice any yoga related to prana, channels, and so -like most practices i know and do- you should manage to purify the prana afected by tobacco, for example whith the 8 movements yantra yoga, and long life pracices, and so, and somehow clear your lungs for a appropiate breath flux while practicing during the night. This is adviceable, not an obligation. It helps.

If you have the aptitud to transform the prana of smoked tobacco in a pure prana as you inhale it then you can smoke it and there is no problem.

In general for any object that causes our attachment and is dificult for us to deal with, it is advisable of offer it away to realized beings using our imagination -for example in a ghanapuja while offering smell- in their omniscense they understand the meaning and through this way slowly slowy detachment occurs and we can relax.

oldbob
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby oldbob » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:13 am

:namaste:

Many excellent replies.

Certainly "observe yourself" applies. Setting limits to preserve precious human life is common sense. I'd rather be an alive 4 false views holder (it is, it isn't, neither or both) than a dead or ill, Dzogchenpa. If you think you can fly always start from the ground - up. If you think you do things that harm you without suffering the consequences --- well maybe you can if you are a Mahasiddha. Otherwise maybe it is a form of suicide and not good!

NO ADDICTIONS! - ChNNR

ChNNR used to talk about smoking in retreats. When people asked questions about it he said it was not good and he taught ways to stop.

My favorite was a few day retreat while you relaxed and had several massages, each day, by a close friend in a bathtub with stale beer. That is what I remember but I am getting old and forgetful. This was taught at the California OZ retreat (1981?). Kyu was there too and maybe she remembers more.

Best, oldbob

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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby bfaus » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:51 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
bfaus wrote:Please forgive my ignorant question, but it is sincere.

Is smoking pipe tobacco an obstacle to realization, in and of itself? I have read a post: http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... it=Tobacco. This seems to point to 'yes', Can a senior student of the DC confirm this for me?

Note that pipe smoking, in this context, doesn't equate to smoking cigarettes, or inhaling tobacco, or even compulsory smoking.

Thank you!


It depends,

if you live in state of contemplation -this means you are a dzogpachenpo- means that there is no restriction -kuntusangpo-.

If you are an atiyoga aspirant and practice any yoga related to prana, channels, and so -like most practices i know and do- you should manage to purify the prana afected by tobacco, for example whith the 8 movements yantra yoga, and long life pracices, and so, and somehow clear your lungs for a appropiate breath flux while practicing during the night. This is adviceable, not an obligation. It helps.

If you have the aptitud to transform the prana of smoked tobacco in a pure prana as you inhale it then you can smoke it and there is no problem.

In general for any object that causes our attachment and is dificult for us to deal with, it is advisable of offer it away to realized beings using our imagination -for example in a ghanapuja while offering smell- in their omniscense they understand the meaning and through this way slowly slowy detachment occurs and we can relax.


Thank you! This was quite helpful! :thanks:

oldbob
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby oldbob » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:19 pm

bfaus wrote:Please forgive my ignorant question, but it is sincere.

Is smoking pipe tobacco an obstacle to realization, in and of itself? I have read a post: http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... it=Tobacco. This seems to point to 'yes', Can a senior student of the DC confirm this for me?

Note that pipe smoking, in this context, doesn't equate to smoking cigarettes, or inhaling tobacco, or even compulsory smoking.

Thank you!


https://consumer.healthday.com/encyclop ... 45343.html

There is a story that when Milarepa was asked if everything is real he first reached out and rapped on the air in front of him and it made sound as if he were rapping on a solid wall. He was then asked, "So you mean that everything is real?" He then reached out and put his hand into the wall as if nothing was there.

Again, if you are a Mahasiddha and possess miraculous powers, then maybe you can avoid the results of seemingly harmful actions.

The quick and easy test is if you can put your hand into a wall without harming the wall.

Otherwise ---.

Now you have the 18 causes of leisure and opportunity, (to practice Dharma) summed up here:

http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... n-nyingtik

_________________________________________

Free and Well-Favoured Human Birth

ད་རེས་དམྱལ་བ་ཡི་དྭགས་དུད་འགྲོ་དང༌། །

daré nyalwa yidak düdro dang

Being born in hell, preta or animal realms,

ཚེ་རིང་ལྷ་དང་ཀླ་ཀློ་ལོག་ལྟ་ཅན། །

tsering lha dang lalo loktachen

Amidst long-living gods, in uncivilized lands, or with wrong views,

སངས་རྒྱས་མ་བྱོན་ཞིང་དང་ལྐུགས་པ་སྟེ། །

sangye majön shying dang kukpa té

In a world where a buddha has not come, or incapable of understanding:

མི་ཁོམས་བརྒྱད་ལས་ཐར་བའི་དལ་བ་ཐོབ། །

mikhom gyé lé tarwé dalwa tob

Now I am free from these ‘eight states where there’s no chance for Dharma practice’.

མིར་གྱུར་དབང་པོ་ཚང་དང་ཡུལ་དབུས་སྐྱེས། །

mir gyur wangpo tsang dang yulü kyé

Born a human being, with all my faculties intact, and in a central land,

ལས་མཐའ་མ་ལོག་བསྟན་ལ་དད་པ་སྟེ། །

leta malok ten la depa té

My lifestyle not harmful and wrong, and with faith in Buddha’s teaching—

རང་ཉིད་འབྱོར་པ་ལྔ་ཚང་སངས་རྒྱས་བྱོན། །

rangnyi jorpa nga tsang sangye jön

All ‘five personal advantages’ are complete. A buddha has come,

ཆོས་གསུངས་བསྟན་པ་གནས་དང་དེ་ལ་ཞུགས། །

chö sung tenpa né dang dé la shyuk

He taught the Dharma, it has survived, I have embraced it, and

བཤེས་གཉེན་དམ་པས་ཟིན་དང་གཞན་འབྱོར་ལྔ། །

shenyen dampé zin dang shyen jor nga

A true spiritual friend has accepted me—I have the ‘five advantages due to circumstances’.
___________________________________________________

So keep your view as "Wide as the sky, and actions as small as a til seed (just means be very careful about what you do, or don't do.)"

Then maybe you can live long enough with the necessary causes of leisure and opportunity to become a Mahasiddha.

https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Enchantm ... 089281053X

And ---

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=8489#p103015



:heart:

bfaus
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby bfaus » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:04 pm

Oldbob & Javier,

I am not a Mahasiddha or a Dzogchenpo. At least not at this point :D . Thank you for sharing your views on this with me. Quite helpful to me.

Anonymous X
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Postby Anonymous X » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:02 pm

Probably, for most people, it is a problem. It's certainly a gamble with your health after all the science is in about it. I quit more than 25 years ago. I watched my mother die from it, age 56, smoking 2 packs a day for 40 years.

Maybe some of you are familiar with the Indian sage, Nisargadatta Maharaj. He was a beedi-wallah, seller of beedis, Indian cigarettes, in Mumbai. He was and is considered one of India's greatest sages of the 20th century. He was a chain smoker before and after his awakening. He was one of the more accessible Indian masters and the books about him, all recorded conversations, are eye opening and worth your time. This is not a recommendation for smoking! :smile:


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