Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

bfaus
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Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

Please forgive my ignorant question, but it is sincere.

Is smoking pipe tobacco an obstacle to realization, in and of itself? I have read a post: http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... it=Tobacco. This seems to point to 'yes', Can a senior student of the DC confirm this for me?

Note that pipe smoking, in this context, doesn't equate to smoking cigarettes, or inhaling tobacco, or even compulsory smoking.

Thank you!
Tiago Simões
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Tiago Simões »

Smoking causes back pain while I meditate, compared to weeks when I don't smoke, were there doesn't seem to be any pain.
Nagas and termas aside, thats clear indication that smoking harms my practice.
Norwegian
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Norwegian »

"The Harmful Effects of Tobacco
Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche

A brief explanation called "The guide who leads the blind from the wrong path ending in a precipice"

Introduction

It is quite remarkable that Tibetan Buddhist civilization seems to be very unique in having always considered the use of tobacco and drugs not only harmful to health but also a major hindrance to spiritual development.

In this text, His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche, explaining the history and the defects of these substances, has gathered the main pronouncements of Guru Padmasambhava concerning them, predictions that were revealed as Termas throughout Tibetan history by great Tertons such as Machik Labdron (11th century), Rigzin Godem (1327-1387), Sangye Lingpa (1403-1478), Duddul Dordje (1615-1672), Longsel Nyingpo (1615-1672), Drodul Lingpa (17th century) and Tugchog Dorje (18th century).

...

May this be auspicious! Having paid homage with deep respect to the Great Urgyen, wisdom body of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, Union of all the Buddha´s families, I shall relate here the history of tobacco.

Long ago, about one hundred years after lord Buddha had passed into Nirvana, in the land of China there was a girl of the race of demons who having been driven mad by her mind of great lust, spoke these words as she was dying: "With this body of mine, I pray that beings of this earth may be lead to the lower realms. Bury my corpse intact and after some time a flower, different from all others will grow from my womb. Merely by smelling its scent one will experience in both body and mind an unimaginable bliss, far more pleasurable than the union of male and female. It will spread far and wide until most of the beings on this earth will enjoy it." At present the actual fruition of her wish is clearly evident.

Infamous opium and other related intoxicants taken by mouth or nose neither help dispel thirst or hunger, nor have a delicious taste and are without a single benefit for strength, constitution or life force.

Furthermore these substances serve to increase nervousness and blood pressure and cause cancer and pulmonary diseases. In these days almost every one of great or modest condition develops an irresistible attraction for these substances and consumes them without control. This is how the wish of the demoness has ultimately born its fruit.

As is found in the Terma of Chogyal Ratna Lingpa: "When the Great Master Padmasambhava was binding the Nine Brothers, breakers of the samaya , under path the youngest of them spoke: 'brothers, do not despair, listen to me. I shall manifest myself in the country of China as tobacco; the name of this toxin will be 'the black poison'. It will appear in the borderlands and from there it will be introduced to central Tibet. The people of Tibet will consume this enjoyable substance. By the strength of this, the five gross poisons will increase. Rejecting the ten virtuous actions, people will practice the ten unvirtuous ones.

The life of the holders of the doctrine will become precarious and they will depart for the Buddha Fields. The smoke of this poison, penetrating the earth will annihilate hundred thousands of naga cities. Rain will not fall, harvest and livestock will not prosper, there will be civil disorders, epidemics, and various undesirable events. The poisonous smoke rising to the sky will destroy abode of the gods, ultimately eclipses and comets will appear. The essential fluids and veins of those who smoke will dry up. It will be the cause for the four hundred and four sicknesses to arise. Whoever smokes will be reborn in lower realms. If one smokes and others inhale the odor, it will be as if one were extrincating the heart of six million
beings."

Also according to the terma of Sangye Lingpa: "In this decadent age people will indulge in various unwholesome actions. In particular, instead of eating food that is tasty men will consume the worst substances that are both poisonous and smell bad. Interrupting what they are doing, they will frantically consume the poison. They will spit and their nose will run uncontrollably, their health and complexion will fade."

In the terma found by Rigzin Godem, there is the prediction. "In the ultimate decadent age, people will absorb poisonous vomit, food of the gandharva. Merely smelling it, one will go to the Avici hell. For this reason, give it up right now."

From the predictions discovered by Duddul Dorje: "Monks and nuns will enjoy inhaling the smoke of these plants and sniffing their powder and the country will be invaded by samayas´ breakers. With compulsive desire arising ceaselessly, they will be thus deceived by Mara, and as a sign of the exhaustion of merits tears will flow without control."

Longsal revealed the following prediction: "The time when people will smoke these wicked substances is also the time when close friends will poison each other."

In revelations found as terma by Tugchog Dorje: "Because of the five gross poisons, hatred, troubles, quarrels and sorrows of beings will blaze like an inferno. As the ten virtues are discarded the non-virtues will rage like a store. Wholesome activities will be neglected, while perverse practices will be protected. In this bad age, protecting gods will vanish as demons assume power. People will inhale tobacco smoke, the veins of discriminative wisdom thus becoming blocked, agitation and obscuring emotions will be intensified. The central channel will be obstructed and, consequently, the limpid clarity of one's awareness will aim. General merit exhausted will cause agitation around the world. Religious objects, the receptacles of blessings, will deteriorate: wrong views and false religions will spread. The protective deities will turn aside and look only towards Mount Meru. Foreigners will invade central Tibet and the natives will be forced to wander in borderlands. Doctrines of Mara will spread and the earth will become an actual hell."

Drodul Lingpa discovered the following predictions: "By merely smelling the odor of these herbs, grasses and leaves which sprang from a drop of blood of an ogress, one will go to the Vajra hell."

From the prediction of Machik Lapdron: "In the final age of disputes there will be something that one puts in the mouth, endowed with all the five poisons. It will originate in China, spread to Mongolia, and be consumed by the people of Tibet. it will cause rainfall to be irregular, there will be great frosts and hail. If meditators take these, even if they practice for one hundred kalpas, they will not realize the deity. In future lives, they will wander continuously in the lower realms. Even the compassion of the Three Supreme Ones will have no power to protect them."

Thus it is said in innumerable predictions. The use of all these substances has been also particularly forbidden by many sayings of accomplished sages of both the new and ancient traditions. The vajra words of Urgyen Rinpoche never deceive, so do not have such false views as: "How can there be so many defects in smoking a natural plant?" Aconite also is a species of plant, yet just eating a small amount can cause physical death. Why, then, couldn’t the fruit of the perverse wishes of a demoness cause spiritual death? Therefore wise persons will certainly do themselves a great kindness by completely renouncing these substances.

May the faithful and the wise who avoided the path to the precipice, have the good fortune of finding relief in the blissful garden of liberation.

At the request of Golok Serta Jigme, this was written by Vajra Jnana. May it be auspicious!

Translated according to the explanations of Khenpo Pema Sherab. (C)

(C) Etitions Padmakara
"Smoking begins as a mere sensation and then spirals into addiction. Texts detailing the origins of its harmful effects explain that tobacco is not an ordinary plant. Long ago, a demon king called Karbunchok, together with his queen and ministers, supplicated negative forces with the malevolent wish that whoever smoked these leaves would bring immense trouble upon themselves, lose all the mental control necessary to maintain the right view and so be led to the lower realms."
-- Trulshik Rinpoche
bfaus
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

tiagolps wrote:Smoking causes back pain while I meditate, compared to weeks when I don't smoke, were there doesn't seem to be any pain.
Nagas and termas aside, thats clear indication that smoking harms my practice.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Can you clarify for me, when you say 'smoking', do you mean cigarettes or pipes?
bfaus
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

Norwegian wrote:
(C) Etitions Padmakara
"Smoking begins as a mere sensation and then spirals into addiction. Texts detailing the origins of its harmful effects explain that tobacco is not an ordinary plant. Long ago, a demon king called Karbunchok, together with his queen and ministers, supplicated negative forces with the malevolent wish that whoever smoked these leaves would bring immense trouble upon themselves, lose all the mental control necessary to maintain the right view and so be led to the lower realms."
-- Trulshik Rinpoche
Indeed! Thus my question. I do enjoy smoking a pipe now and again, but I can honestly say that I am not addicted. I don't feel I need to smoke a pipe and can and have gone months without picking one up. However, if the above is true and tobacco smoking, including pipe tobacco, is a hindrance to practice....I will cease immediately.
bfaus
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

Norwegian wrote:
Long ago, about one hundred years after lord Buddha had passed into Nirvana, in the land of China there was a girl of the race of demons who having been driven mad by her mind of great lust, spoke these words as she was dying: "With this body of mine, I pray that beings of this earth may be lead to the lower realms. Bury my corpse intact and after some time a flower, different from all others will grow from my womb. Merely by smelling its scent one will experience in both body and mind an unimaginable bliss, far more pleasurable than the union of male and female. It will spread far and wide until most of the beings on this earth will enjoy it."
This sounds more like opium rather than tobacco. I have never derived that much pleasure from tobacco. :tongue:

Drodul Lingpa discovered the following predictions: "By merely smelling the odor of these herbs, grasses and leaves which sprang from a drop of blood of an ogress, one will go to the Vajra hell."
Does this mean I'm already screwed and destined for Vajra hell?
Tiago Simões
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Tiago Simões »

bfaus wrote:
tiagolps wrote:Smoking causes back pain while I meditate, compared to weeks when I don't smoke, were there doesn't seem to be any pain.
Nagas and termas aside, thats clear indication that smoking harms my practice.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Can you clarify for me, when you say 'smoking', do you mean cigarettes or pipes?
Any tobacco smoke that enters your lungs,
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Adamantine »

I have it on very good Vajra authority that smoking actually blocks one's inner subtle channels and becomes a hindrance to Vajrayana practice as a result. What's more, this causes problems with not only one's own ability to perform Phowa at the time of death, but hinders a powerful Lama's ability to perform Phowa for you. It's certainly an obstacle. I personally found that my capacity for self-deception (although still present) was significantly reduced merely by quitting tobacco entirely.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
bfaus
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

Adamantine wrote:I have it on very good Vajra authority that smoking actually blocks one's inner subtle channels and becomes a hindrance to Vajrayana practice as a result. What's more, this causes problems with not only one's own ability to perform Phowa at the time of death, but hinders a powerful Lama's ability to perform Phowa for you. It's certainly an obstacle. I personally found that my capacity for self-deception (although still present) was significantly reduced merely by quitting tobacco entirely.
Thank you! From the different texts posted via links and direct quotes above there seem to be a similar theme about the blocking of the central channel. My primary concern is this and/or being destined for vajra hell. If you wouldn't mind....can you tell me who/what the "very good Vajra Authority" is (be it book or person)? You can PM if that will be better.

Very much appreciated.
crazy-man
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by crazy-man »

Smoking is the habit of inhaling the smoke of smouldering tobacco leaves either by means of cigarettes or pipes. Tobacco was unknown in ancient India but people did inhale smoke for medical and recreational purposes. According to the Su÷ruta Cikitsà, an ancient treatise on medicine, inhaling smoke is good as a purgative, a cure for tiredness, depression, throat and nose problems and is also beneficial for pregnant women. Certain herbs were burned and the smoke sniffed in through a small metal tube (dhåmanetti). The Buddha subscribed to this kind of smoke therapy and allowed monks and nuns to have smoking tubes (Vin.I,204), although some people apparently considered them to be a luxury (Ja.IV,363).
Cigarettes (dhåmavaññi) smoked for enjoyment were made by grinding cardamom, saffron, sandalwood and aloe wood into a fine paste and moulding it over a reed so that it was about 15 centimetres long and with the thickness of a thumb. When the paste was dry, the reed was removed and the resulting cigarette was smeared with clarified butter or sandalwood oil before being ignited. These cigarettes were probably far less harmful than the modern ones. Another ancient medical work, the Caraka Saühità, recommends sitting in an upright but comfortable posture while smoking, taking three puffs at a time and inhaling through both the mouth and nostrils but exhaling only through nostrils.
http://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=387
According to the Nyingma Master Trulshik Rinpoche,
"Smoking begins as a mere sensation and then spirals into addiction. Texts detailing the orgins of it's harmful effects explain that tobacco is not an ordinary plant. Long ago, a demon king called Karbunchok, together with his queen and ministers, supplicated negative forces with the malevolent wish that whoever smoked these leaves would bring immense trouble upon themselves, lose all the mental control necessary to mainatain the right view and so be led to the lower realms."
According to the Gelug Master Zopa Rinpoche:
Tobacco is a very impure plant, it came about due to devils, who made prayers to harm people. Then, from that, tobacco grew, to harm people. Especially, it blocks spiritual development. If spiritual development doesn't happen, then one has to continually die and be reborn, and experience continual suffering and problems, again and again, without end, as human beings, hell beings, devas, animals, etc. There is no end to the suffering in samsara and, also, you can't liberate thousands of others from samsaric suffering, and bring them to full enlightenment.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/merlin-s ... 495685876/

Smoking tobacco
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=4050

Stop Smoking by Using Buddhist Methods
http://www.bamboo-delight.com/Wu_Files/Stop_Smok.txt

more:
http://www.dudjom-on-smoking.org/index_eng.php
http://buddhism.stackexchange.com/quest ... an-smoking
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Sādhaka »

bfaus wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
Long ago, about one hundred years after lord Buddha had passed into Nirvana, in the land of China there was a girl of the race of demons who having been driven mad by her mind of great lust, spoke these words as she was dying: "With this body of mine, I pray that beings of this earth may be lead to the lower realms. Bury my corpse intact and after some time a flower, different from all others will grow from my womb. Merely by smelling its scent one will experience in both body and mind an unimaginable bliss, far more pleasurable than the union of male and female. It will spread far and wide until most of the beings on this earth will enjoy it."
This sounds more like opium rather than tobacco. I have never derived that much pleasure from tobacco. :tongue:

Drodul Lingpa discovered the following predictions: "By merely smelling the odor of these herbs, grasses and leaves which sprang from a drop of blood of an ogress, one will go to the Vajra hell."
Does this mean I'm already screwed and destined for Vajra hell?
I agree, that certainly does not sound like a description of tobacco, but opium rather.


Posted in another thread, regarding tobacco, and marijuana (?):

Benten wrote:I have in hand a copy of a teaching by the previous Kalu Rinpoche. He said that 'smoking' pretty much screws up your ability to open the chakras and really screws up the lotuses. Helluva a hard time controlling the winds and mind if you smoke. And at some point moot. Also there is a profound Guru Rinpoche Terma (two red texts currently packed so no direct quote) where it is stated if you smoke it will be eons before you are in his presence....
This also sounds like it could be in reference to opium, rather than marijuana.

I want to know if Benten still visits this forum, or if anyone knows which Terma they are referring to here.

In any case, I think that if you've smoked any of these substances before, the quotes from various texts, Termas, etc. here do not necessarily indicate that Vajra hell is inevitable, or that you definitely won't be in Guru Rinpoche's presence for eons, etc.

I think that they do indicate however that if you've smoked these kinds of things before and yet you do not purify the karma accumulated from having done so, then the hells etc. will come. Therefore, for anyone who is in the habit of smoking anything like tobacco, opium, marijuana, or taking synthetic/artificial drugs, it would be wise to just stop it; and then start doing purification and healing practices, along with various cleanses and Tibetan Medicines and so forth.
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Simon E. »

Smoking tobacco is a very bad idea. Bad for physical health. Bad for psychological health. Bad for the bank balance.
Yet...two of my teachers smoked. One still might.
One of them is fairly obvious. The other is/was Lama Chime who liked a good cigar.

Its almost like the teachers like being provocative.. :o
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Sādhaka »

There's a story about a Lama who took a student's cigarette, took a drag, and blew smoke from his skin pores, and then said (paraphrased) 'When you can do this, then you can smoke without any problems'.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

Does all this apply if the tobacco smoke is not inhaled (as was stated in my first post)?
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Ayu »

bfaus wrote:Does all this apply if the tobacco smoke is not inhaled (as was stated in my first post)?
The poison enters the body over the tongue and the mucous membranes as well. People who do not inhale get similarly adicted like those who do inhale.
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by kukuripa »

As a former smoker ,I can assure you that it harms your winds and channels,and so does weed.

But your attachment to tobacco may be a more serious impediment
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

Ayu wrote:
bfaus wrote:Does all this apply if the tobacco smoke is not inhaled (as was stated in my first post)?
The poison enters the body over the tongue and the mucous membranes as well. People who do not inhale get similarly adicted like those who do inhale.
Thank you!
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by bfaus »

kukuripa wrote:As a former smoker ,I can assure you that it harms your winds and channels,and so does weed.

But your attachment to tobacco may be a more serious impediment
Ha! Yes, I'm so attached that I plan on getting rid of my pipes and pipe tobacco because of the impacts it can have on my practice.
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Malcolm »

Sādhaka wrote:There's a story about a Lama who took a student's cigarette, took a drag, and blew smoke from his skin pores, and then said (paraphrased) 'When you can do this, then you can smoke without any problems'.
It was Dudjom Lingpa, and he used tobacco regularly.
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Re: Is Tobacco an obstacle to practice?

Post by Losal Samten »

Malcolm wrote:
Sādhaka wrote:There's a story about a Lama who took a student's cigarette, took a drag, and blew smoke from his skin pores, and then said (paraphrased) 'When you can do this, then you can smoke without any problems'.
It was Dudjom Lingpa, and he used tobacco regularly.
And even then it was said to be why Dudjom Rinpoche had bad asthma.
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