Confused about nature of mind introduction

Malcolm
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Malcolm »

Jehanne wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:09 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:25 pm
Jehanne, the event Seeking Wisdom was talking about is in fact free, and it involves a master with true knowledge of the natural state giving clear, thorough instructions on how to go about getting to know something about one’s own mind and gaining knowledge of its true nature for oneself. Attending such teachings, and the attendant transmission, is the best possible way to go about gaining knowledge first hand for oneself.
Ok, sorry I mixed up the issue about payment. Definately worth going there then, but still also important to actually do the practise at home, too :)

My favourite quote of the month from Alan Wallace: "(There are) two approaches to identifying the mind. We can receive pointing out instructions from a qualified master, or we can just do the practice."
One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
Natan
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Natan »

That may be a misquote, one realize nature of mind in the empowerment, or after, in the practice.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Perfect faith... how can someone have perfect faith in that? It's believing just because! Salvation through belief... no thanks. Too "Abrahamic" for my taste... and equaly sterile
Just curious, but f it came down to where it was put to you that faith was necessary for empowerment and direct introduction to work, would you let your antipathy towards faith impede you?
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Dechen Norbu »

Faith is a very generalist word. I prefer informed confidence. You trust the teacher and the method after careful analysis. You give it a go and if you do things properly you'll get results. When you face an obstacle, you investigate it, search a solution and move on. When needed you consult with the teacher to check your progress. What you don't do is reciting something and just hope for the best when you die based on what you've been told and hold as true based on faith (meaning acceptance without any practical confirmation). See the difference?
Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Pema Rigdzin »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:34 pm
One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
This is the first I've heard about B Alan Wallace being authorized to give Dzogchen transmission. Is it your understanding/impression that he was legitimately given this authorization? If so, that's wonderful.
Pema Rigdzin/Brian Pittman
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Dechen Norbu wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 pm Faith is a very generalist word. I prefer informed confidence. You trust the teacher and the method after careful analysis. You give it a go and if you do things properly you'll get results. When you face an obstacle, you investigate it, search a solution and move on. When needed you consult with the teacher to check your progress.
Right.

So what do you do if your teacher tells you to develop your faith in the 3 Jewels?
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
passel
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by passel »

Pema Rigdzin wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:34 pm
One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
This is the first I've heard about B Alan Wallace being authorized to give Dzogchen transmission. Is it your understanding/impression that he was legitimately given this authorization? If so, that's wonderful.
Gyatrul R authorized him. First just to teach the texts that he’s translated. His public teachings mostly focus on shine and lhaktong, but I’ve since heard that he teaches not just trekchod but togyal to close students with the appropriate prereqs. What those are exactly idk.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Dechen Norbu »

smcj wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:18 am
Dechen Norbu wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 pm Faith is a very generalist word. I prefer informed confidence. You trust the teacher and the method after careful analysis. You give it a go and if you do things properly you'll get results. When you face an obstacle, you investigate it, search a solution and move on. When needed you consult with the teacher to check your progress.
Right.

So what do you do if your teacher tells you to develop your faith in the 3 Jewels?
Did I express myself poorly? If so, I'm sorry. To develop faith the practitioner makes use of the three wisdoms. There lies the difference between informed confidence and simple acceptance through blind faith. There are good reasons for trusting the three jewels, both from a sound intellectual analysis and the insight gained through consistent practice.

Perhaps we should discuss this in a more suitable topic, wouldn't you agree? I fear we may be hijacking the thread with our little exchange of ideas.
PSM
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by PSM »

Pema Rigdzin wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:34 pm
One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
This is the first I've heard about B Alan Wallace being authorized to give Dzogchen transmission. Is it your understanding/impression that he was legitimately given this authorization? If so, that's wonderful.
I have recieved dzogchen teachings from him, including DI, and he is 101% the real deal. He's very powerful in real life when he wants to be. A fantastic teacher.
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