Confused about nature of mind introduction

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Malcolm
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Malcolm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:34 pm

Jehanne wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:09 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:25 pm

Jehanne, the event Seeking Wisdom was talking about is in fact free, and it involves a master with true knowledge of the natural state giving clear, thorough instructions on how to go about getting to know something about one’s own mind and gaining knowledge of its true nature for oneself. Attending such teachings, and the attendant transmission, is the best possible way to go about gaining knowledge first hand for oneself.
Ok, sorry I mixed up the issue about payment. Definately worth going there then, but still also important to actually do the practise at home, too :)

My favourite quote of the month from Alan Wallace: "(There are) two approaches to identifying the mind. We can receive pointing out instructions from a qualified master, or we can just do the practice."
One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Crazywisdom
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:09 pm

That may be a misquote, one realize nature of mind in the empowerment, or after, in the practice.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

smcj
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by smcj » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:13 pm

Perfect faith... how can someone have perfect faith in that? It's believing just because! Salvation through belief... no thanks. Too "Abrahamic" for my taste... and equaly sterile
Just curious, but f it came down to where it was put to you that faith was necessary for empowerment and direct introduction to work, would you let your antipathy towards faith impede you?
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Dechen Norbu » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 pm

Faith is a very generalist word. I prefer informed confidence. You trust the teacher and the method after careful analysis. You give it a go and if you do things properly you'll get results. When you face an obstacle, you investigate it, search a solution and move on. When needed you consult with the teacher to check your progress. What you don't do is reciting something and just hope for the best when you die based on what you've been told and hold as true based on faith (meaning acceptance without any practical confirmation). See the difference?

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:34 pm

One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
This is the first I've heard about B Alan Wallace being authorized to give Dzogchen transmission. Is it your understanding/impression that he was legitimately given this authorization? If so, that's wonderful.

smcj
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by smcj » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:18 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 pm
Faith is a very generalist word. I prefer informed confidence. You trust the teacher and the method after careful analysis. You give it a go and if you do things properly you'll get results. When you face an obstacle, you investigate it, search a solution and move on. When needed you consult with the teacher to check your progress.
Right.

So what do you do if your teacher tells you to develop your faith in the 3 Jewels?
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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passel
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by passel » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:06 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:34 pm

One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
This is the first I've heard about B Alan Wallace being authorized to give Dzogchen transmission. Is it your understanding/impression that he was legitimately given this authorization? If so, that's wonderful.
Gyatrul R authorized him. First just to teach the texts that he’s translated. His public teachings mostly focus on shine and lhaktong, but I’ve since heard that he teaches not just trekchod but togyal to close students with the appropriate prereqs. What those are exactly idk.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by Dechen Norbu » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:48 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:18 am
Dechen Norbu wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 pm
Faith is a very generalist word. I prefer informed confidence. You trust the teacher and the method after careful analysis. You give it a go and if you do things properly you'll get results. When you face an obstacle, you investigate it, search a solution and move on. When needed you consult with the teacher to check your progress.
Right.

So what do you do if your teacher tells you to develop your faith in the 3 Jewels?
Did I express myself poorly? If so, I'm sorry. To develop faith the practitioner makes use of the three wisdoms. There lies the difference between informed confidence and simple acceptance through blind faith. There are good reasons for trusting the three jewels, both from a sound intellectual analysis and the insight gained through consistent practice.

Perhaps we should discuss this in a more suitable topic, wouldn't you agree? I fear we may be hijacking the thread with our little exchange of ideas.

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PSM
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Re: Confused about nature of mind introduction

Post by PSM » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:01 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:34 pm

One cannot practice any kind of real Dzogchen practice without empowerment. Alan Wallace knows this, which is why he gives empowerments to the more advanced people in his program.
This is the first I've heard about B Alan Wallace being authorized to give Dzogchen transmission. Is it your understanding/impression that he was legitimately given this authorization? If so, that's wonderful.
I have recieved dzogchen teachings from him, including DI, and he is 101% the real deal. He's very powerful in real life when he wants to be. A fantastic teacher.
"The only virtue which cannot be faked is courage" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb
"Not practicing dharma is painful" - Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche
"We don't want to feel the weirdness of life." - James Low

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