Melong in Dzogchen

DGA
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Melong in Dzogchen

Post by DGA »

I wanted to follow up on some other conversations we've had here about our old friend, the melong, in the context of Dzogchen practice.

Are any or all of these claims true regarding the use of the melong in this context?
May hold a ‘data bank’ of esoteric knowledge;
Is aware and responds with autonomous action (consciousness);
Holds/retains energy and resources useful as tools for the shaman;
Can be ‘programmed’ with the shaman’s conscious intention;
Has attributes that can be perceived meditatively or may be ‘gifted’ by the mirror;
Has an inherent network to communicate with other mirrors;
May have the agency of healing when applied to biology and psyche;
May have the agency of protection or force when used for warfare; and
Can act as an instrument of amplification or enrichment.
http://www.generalintention.com/researc ... anism.html
Sherab Rigdrol
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Sherab Rigdrol »

I assume there are many other uses for the melong, but I'm sure they are secret and available only as pith instructions.
Malcolm
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Malcolm »

DGA wrote:I wanted to follow up on some other conversations we've had here about our old friend, the melong, in the context of Dzogchen practice.

Are any or all of these claims true regarding the use of the melong in this context?
May hold a ‘data bank’ of esoteric knowledge;
Is aware and responds with autonomous action (consciousness);
Holds/retains energy and resources useful as tools for the shaman;
Can be ‘programmed’ with the shaman’s conscious intention;
Has attributes that can be perceived meditatively or may be ‘gifted’ by the mirror;
Has an inherent network to communicate with other mirrors;
May have the agency of healing when applied to biology and psyche;
May have the agency of protection or force when used for warfare; and
Can act as an instrument of amplification or enrichment.
http://www.generalintention.com/researc ... anism.html


As far as dzogchen goes, no.
DGA
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by DGA »

Malcolm wrote:As far as dzogchen goes, no.
That's helpful, thank you. One more issue to clarify:

Does the melong serve a purpose in the context of Dzogchen apart from its symbolism, its function as an aide memoire to practice, or as a fashion statement?
Malcolm
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Malcolm »

DGA wrote:
Malcolm wrote:As far as dzogchen goes, no.
That's helpful, thank you. One more issue to clarify:

Does the melong serve a purpose in the context of Dzogchen apart from its symbolism, its function as an aide memoire to practice, or as a fashion statement?
A D.C. Melong is a symbol, mnemonic device, and a tagdrol.

For some it may be a fashion too.
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Mantrik
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Mantrik »

It is to do with teachings where the mirror is used to represent the nature of the mind.

If you explore the works of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu he explains it, as he does on retreats.

As Khyentse Norbu taught:

''We need a mirror, we need reality
and we need someone understanding
the mirror. And even
more, as Chögyal Namkhai Norbu
always says, we need a teacher
that introduces the mirror. ''

From The Mirror 109

Whilst practitioners of Dzogchen may use a melong to support secondary practices, the physical object reminds us of the teachings on the nature of the mind. The Dzogchen Community melongs have the traditional 3 dot pattern on the highly polished front, ChNN's Longsal symbol on the back together with (on the larger size) the Six Spaces mantra.
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Vasana
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Vasana »

"For increasing clarity" is the main thing I remember hearing Norbu Rinpoche say about melongs in Dzogchen.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Mantrik »

A little elaboration:

The three dots represent the unity of Base, Path and Fruit - each of which in turn leads to other teachings in groups of 3.
Then there is the unity of the primordial state shown in the mirror as a representation of the thigle.

In the 'Crystal and the Way of Light' ChNN explains these and also the mantra I mentioned in my earlier post, as well as a design (now replaced by the Longsal symbol) of the triangular form (again a unity of 3) and the central 'joy swirl' Gankyil.

This is a melong similar to that pattern:

Image



It is also a reminder to us to constantly observe our own condition. The mirror reflects and shows what is there, but has a nature unchanged by what it reflects.

The current Dzogchen Community melong:

Image
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by MiphamFan »

Seems to be some stylized writing in phagspa script around the Longsal symbol. Anyone knows what it says?

EDIT

Never mind, I think it's 'A A HA SHA SA MA, it's not quite the same as the historical Phagspa script though, maybe it developed a bit in Tibet after the Mongol period.
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by DGA »

Mantrik wrote:In the 'Crystal and the Way of Light' ChNN explains these and also the mantra I mentioned in my earlier post, as well as a design (now replaced by the Longsal symbol) of the triangular form (again a unity of 3) and the central 'joy swirl' Gankyil.
I'm on the lookout for one of the previous-generation DC melong. I can't imagine people part with them, so I have no expectation of actually finding one.
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Mantrik »

MiphamFan wrote:Seems to be some stylized writing in phagspa script around the Longsal symbol. Anyone knows what it says?

EDIT

Never mind, I think it's 'A A HA SHA SA MA, it's not quite the same as the historical Phagspa script though, maybe it developed a bit in Tibet after the Mongol period.
ChNN in 'Crystal and the Way of Light' says:

''....the syllables HA A HA SHA SA MA, which close
the gates to the six realms, are written in an ancient script of
Zhangzhung.
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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MiphamFan
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by MiphamFan »

Mantrik wrote:
MiphamFan wrote:Seems to be some stylized writing in phagspa script around the Longsal symbol. Anyone knows what it says?

EDIT

Never mind, I think it's 'A A HA SHA SA MA, it's not quite the same as the historical Phagspa script though, maybe it developed a bit in Tibet after the Mongol period.
ChNN in 'Crystal and the Way of Light' says:

''....the syllables HA A HA SHA SA MA, which close
the gates to the six realms, are written in an ancient script of
Zhangzhung.
I am not sure if he is referring to another rendition of the six syllables but in this melong it is very clearly Phagspa script with some slight changes:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/phagspa.htm
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Mantrik »

MiphamFan wrote:
Mantrik wrote:
MiphamFan wrote:Seems to be some stylized writing in phagspa script around the Longsal symbol. Anyone knows what it says?

EDIT

Never mind, I think it's 'A A HA SHA SA MA, it's not quite the same as the historical Phagspa script though, maybe it developed a bit in Tibet after the Mongol period.
ChNN in 'Crystal and the Way of Light' says:

''....the syllables HA A HA SHA SA MA, which close
the gates to the six realms, are written in an ancient script of
Zhangzhung.
I am not sure if he is referring to another rendition of the six syllables but in this melong it is very clearly Phagspa script with some slight changes:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/phagspa.htm
No, it's the same as the image in the book. Guess he interprets that script as one from ancient Shang Shung.
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DGA
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by DGA »

I've noticed that DC people, including ChNN, wear the melong as a pendant more or less at heart level.

I've read in exactly one source that the melong is worn in a sash at one's navel level on the right flank of the body. Is this plausible? if so, what difference would it make in a practical sense if worn lower on the trunk rather than as a pendant?
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by krodha »

DGA wrote:I've noticed that DC people, including ChNN, wear the melong as a pendant more or less at heart level
The location of sugatagarbha.
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Mantrik »

DGA wrote:I've noticed that DC people, including ChNN, wear the melong as a pendant more or less at heart level.

I've read in exactly one source that the melong is worn in a sash at one's navel level on the right flank of the body. Is this plausible? if so, what difference would it make in a practical sense if worn lower on the trunk rather than as a pendant?
Heart level for Dharma items also prevents them sliding across under the armpit, which is thought not to be respectful. Can't remember where I heard that.

I only know of Mongolian shamans wearing their 'toli' mirror in the sash they wear as a form of belt. They also sometimes tuck the toli into their tunic where it rests just above the belt. They sometimes do this to keep this ritual object hidden from view. The position is just for convenience when carrying.
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Malcolm
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Malcolm »

DGA wrote:I've noticed that DC people, including ChNN, wear the melong as a pendant more or less at heart level.

I've read in exactly one source that the melong is worn in a sash at one's navel level on the right flank of the body.
That kind of melong is a as astrological melong, worn as a talisman of good luck, basically.
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by makewhisper »

I hope y'all won't mind that I'm resurrecting an old topic. I had the pleasure of viewing the practice space of a vajra sister this week. She had a melong hanging in the center of her shrine, and it occurred to me that one might be able to use a melong as a point of fixation in shamatha. Is there any precedent for such a practice?
ༀ་ཨཱཿ་ཧཱུྃ
Oṃ Āḥ Hūṃ
Om Ah Hung

"Whilst lacking pure renunciation there is no way to pacify
The continual thirst for pleasure in the ocean of saṃsāra,
And since all living beings are bound by their craving for existence,
You must begin by finding the determination to be free."

[from Je Tsongkhapa's Three Principal Aspects of the Path]
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by Mantrik »

makewhisper wrote:I hope y'all won't mind that I'm resurrecting an old topic. I had the pleasure of viewing the practice space of a vajra sister this week. She had a melong hanging in the center of her shrine, and it occurred to me that one might be able to use a melong as a point of fixation in shamatha. Is there any precedent for such a practice?
A shamanic shrine will often have a set of 3 on it for various purposes. Gazing for divination etc. is a traditional use, also in the Vajrayana.
No reason not to use one as a focus as you suggest, but I've only known of them as a ritual implement or reminder of the mirror/crystal etc. in Dzogchen.
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Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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makewhisper
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Re: Melong in Dzogchen

Post by makewhisper »

Mantrik wrote:reminder of the mirror/crystal etc. in Dzogchen.
I think that's why I like the idea of integrating the melong into fixation practice. Plus I've always felt a connection to mirrors. When I saw her melong, it felt very promising to think it could be used as a shamatha object.
ༀ་ཨཱཿ་ཧཱུྃ
Oṃ Āḥ Hūṃ
Om Ah Hung

"Whilst lacking pure renunciation there is no way to pacify
The continual thirst for pleasure in the ocean of saṃsāra,
And since all living beings are bound by their craving for existence,
You must begin by finding the determination to be free."

[from Je Tsongkhapa's Three Principal Aspects of the Path]
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