Rigpa and mindfulness

Post Reply
User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by Aryjna »

This quote seems to relate to a question I have had recently but have not had an answer for yet:
da khyed rang rnams rig pa mdun gyi nam mkha' la/ bzo med du ce re/ yengs med du hrig ge/ dmigs med du gsal le ba/ 'od ka'i ngang du zhog cig bya

"Now, you all [meaning the students] should look without artifice at [your] vidyā in the sky in front [of you]; vividly without distraction; clearly without support; resting in the state of radiance.
It is from this thread: https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 80#p353991

Unless it is a figure of speech, it implies that rigpa (at least in the case of someone who is still a beginner) may be found specifically where one applies mindfulness at a given moment. If you are focusing on the eye consciousness for example, you may be able to integrate that and be in rigpa in your eye consciousness. With this idea in mind, one may consider the various methods for recognizing rigpa to work on the same assumption. Then again, the above quote perhaps would be more correctly read as an instruction not to focus on vision but on nothing in particular. But the question still stands.

As I understand, it is not possible to be mindful of everything simultaneously. For example, you may be mindful of your vision, but doesn't that mean that at that moment you are not really mindful of your hearing?

Is there a connection between rigpa and mindfulness in this regard, where rigpa is found in the specific experience only, or is rigpa all-encompassing? I have never seen this discussed before.

I am inclined to think that rigpa is not tied to mindfulness in this way, but that would probably mean that it is possible to fall in a ditch because you did not notice it while being in rigpa.
User avatar
CedarTree
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:13 pm

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by CedarTree »

I am no Dzogchen student or master, but do you think Rigpa is somewhere? ;)

Practice, Practice, Practice
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by Malcolm »

If you want to understand what this means you need to find a Dzogchen master and dedicate yourself to the teachings. Your speculations are way off base. But I cannot correct them because this is not a proper forum fir doing so.
Aryjna wrote:This quote seems to relate to a question I have had recently but have not had an answer for yet:
da khyed rang rnams rig pa mdun gyi nam mkha' la/ bzo med du ce re/ yengs med du hrig ge/ dmigs med du gsal le ba/ 'od ka'i ngang du zhog cig bya

"Now, you all [meaning the students] should look without artifice at [your] vidyā in the sky in front [of you]; vividly without distraction; clearly without support; resting in the state of radiance.
It is from this thread: https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 80#p353991

Unless it is a figure of speech, it implies that rigpa (at least in the case of someone who is still a beginner) may be found specifically where one applies mindfulness at a given moment. If you are focusing on the eye consciousness for example, you may be able to integrate that and be in rigpa in your eye consciousness. With this idea in mind, one may consider the various methods for recognizing rigpa to work on the same assumption. Then again, the above quote perhaps would be more correctly read as an instruction not to focus on vision but on nothing in particular. But the question still stands.

As I understand, it is not possible to be mindful of everything simultaneously. For example, you may be mindful of your vision, but doesn't that mean that at that moment you are not really mindful of your hearing?

Is there a connection between rigpa and mindfulness in this regard, where rigpa is found in the specific experience only, or is rigpa all-encompassing? I have never seen this discussed before.

I am inclined to think that rigpa is not tied to mindfulness in this way, but that would probably mean that it is possible to fall in a ditch because you did not notice it while being in rigpa.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by Malcolm »

CedarTree wrote:I am no Dzogchen student or master, but do you think Rigpa is somewhere? ;)
Rigpa has a location. Ditto about what said above.
User avatar
CedarTree
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:13 pm

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by CedarTree »

Malcolm wrote:
CedarTree wrote:I am no Dzogchen student or master, but do you think Rigpa is somewhere? ;)
Rigpa has a location. Ditto about what said above.
How are you defining "location" Malcolm?

Edit: Nevermind I re-read this post and I know what your getting at lol, it's early morning my bad.

Practice, Practice, Practice
fckw
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:10 am

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by fckw »

The relation between rigpa and mindfulness is a very interesting topic that is unfortunately rarely elaborated more closely. I would also be interested in texts or material that gives more details about how the two are interrelated.
User avatar
anjali
Former staff member
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by anjali »

fckw wrote:The relation between rigpa and mindfulness is a very interesting topic that is unfortunately rarely elaborated more closely. I would also be interested in texts or material that gives more details about how the two are interrelated.
Perhaps the following quote by Tsoknyi Rinpoche may be helpful,
Tsoknyi Rinpoche, as quoted in Quintessential Dzogchen wrote:Usually, in order not to be distracted, we try to keep mindful, right? What is it that maintains shamatha, the state of mental stability? The best way is mindfulness, right? To keep undistracted in shamatha, we remain mindful. The main purpose of mindfulness is to be undistracted. The Dzogchen perspective is different, and in fact this is one of the main distinctions between shamatha and rigpa. Rigpa, of course, needs to be undistracted as well, but the rigpa that needs to be kept undistracted by means of mindfulness will only turn into a conceptual state. Here there seem to be two possibilities: being undistracted by keeping mindful and being undistracted without trying to keep mindful. Rigpa’s type of undistractedness is the latter; it is not kept by being deliberately mindful.

The Dzogchen teachings actually mention four types of mindfulness: deliberate mindfulness, effortless mindfulness, true mindfulness, and supreme mindfulness. Briefly, however, we can operate with just two types: deliberate and effortless, one for shamatha, the other for Dzogchen. Deliberate mindfulness is used in shamatha training, while effortless mindfulness is during vipashyana, in the Dzogchen sense. From a Mahamudra perspective, the true mindfulness is during one taste, while kinglike supreme mindfulness is during nonmeditation.
Image
User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by Aryjna »

anjali wrote:
fckw wrote:The relation between rigpa and mindfulness is a very interesting topic that is unfortunately rarely elaborated more closely. I would also be interested in texts or material that gives more details about how the two are interrelated.
Perhaps the following quote by Tsoknyi Rinpoche may be helpful,
Tsoknyi Rinpoche, as quoted in Quintessential Dzogchen wrote:Usually, in order not to be distracted, we try to keep mindful, right? What is it that maintains shamatha, the state of mental stability? The best way is mindfulness, right? To keep undistracted in shamatha, we remain mindful. The main purpose of mindfulness is to be undistracted. The Dzogchen perspective is different, and in fact this is one of the main distinctions between shamatha and rigpa. Rigpa, of course, needs to be undistracted as well, but the rigpa that needs to be kept undistracted by means of mindfulness will only turn into a conceptual state. Here there seem to be two possibilities: being undistracted by keeping mindful and being undistracted without trying to keep mindful. Rigpa’s type of undistractedness is the latter; it is not kept by being deliberately mindful.

The Dzogchen teachings actually mention four types of mindfulness: deliberate mindfulness, effortless mindfulness, true mindfulness, and supreme mindfulness. Briefly, however, we can operate with just two types: deliberate and effortless, one for shamatha, the other for Dzogchen. Deliberate mindfulness is used in shamatha training, while effortless mindfulness is during vipashyana, in the Dzogchen sense. From a Mahamudra perspective, the true mindfulness is during one taste, while kinglike supreme mindfulness is during nonmeditation.
That book looks interesting. I have never seen any detailed explanations of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective before.
User avatar
anjali
Former staff member
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by anjali »

Aryjna wrote:That book looks interesting. I have never seen any detailed explanations of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective before.
In the book The Fearless Lion's Roar: Profound Instructions on Dzogchen, the Great Perfection, by Nyoshul Rinpoche, there is a chapter entitled "The Importance of Mindfulness" that might be worth your while.

Also, in the book As It Is, Vol. 2, by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, there is a chapter entitled "Shamatha and Vipashyana" that would be a nice complement after reading the Lion's Roar chapter.
Image
User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by Aryjna »

anjali wrote: In the book The Fearless Lion's Roar: Profound Instructions on Dzogchen, the Great Perfection, by Nyoshul Rinpoche, there is a chapter entitled "The Importance of Mindfulness" that might be worth your while.

Also, in the book As It Is, Vol. 2, by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, there is a chapter entitled "Shamatha and Vipashyana" that would be a nice complement after reading the Lion's Roar chapter.
Thank you, I will try to read them these days.
fckw
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:10 am

Re: Rigpa and mindfulness

Post by fckw »

anjali wrote: The Dzogchen teachings actually mention four types of mindfulness: deliberate mindfulness, effortless mindfulness, true mindfulness, and supreme mindfulness. Briefly, however, we can operate with just two types: deliberate and effortless, one for shamatha, the other for Dzogchen. Deliberate mindfulness is used in shamatha training, while effortless mindfulness is during vipashyana, in the Dzogchen sense. From a Mahamudra perspective, the true mindfulness is during one taste, while kinglike supreme mindfulness is during nonmeditation.
Ah, thanks, this is indeed very interesting.
Post Reply

Return to “Dzogchen”