Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?

[Rinchen Dorje]

ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...

[heart]

ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...

I think only for enlightenment, but who knows.

/magnus

[conebeckham]

Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.

In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.

[Rinchen Dorje]

Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.

In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.

Thanks for responding Cone. Is he yidam or guru in Longde? or both? If you could elaborate more the connection to Longde I would really appreciate it. ChNN has talked about this a bit in his Longde teachings re: Pang Mipham Gonpo, but any other info would be nice.

[conebeckham]

Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.

In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.

Thanks for responding Cone. Is he yidam or guru in Longde? or both? If you could elaborate more the connection to Longde I would really appreciate it. ChNN has talked about this a bit in his Longde teachings re: Pang Mipham Gonpo, but any other info would be nice.

I think a Yidam, but Malcolm would be a much better source.

[dzoki]

Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.

In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.

Thanks for responding Cone. Is he yidam or guru in Longde? or both? If you could elaborate more the connection to Longde I would really appreciate it. ChNN has talked about this a bit in his Longde teachings re: Pang Mipham Gonpo, but any other info would be nice.

He is both, there is a guruyoga and yidam practice of Ngondzog Gyalpo in Rinpoche´s teachings. He usually teaches the guruyoga with his longde teachings, he has rarely taught yidam practice of NG, he does teach in in the contexts of SMS level four.

The connection is as follows - a buddha by the name of Ngondzog Gyalpo is one of the 12 ancient dzogchen teachers, 10 of which came before Buddha Shakyamuni (the 11th) and Garab Dorje (the 12th), his teaching were tantras of longde class.
Also there is a yidam Ngondzog Gyalpo in Mamo Botong tantra, which was the main practice of Pang Mipham Gonpo, before he recieved longde teachings from Vairochana. So from that time on practice of NG and Longde became intertwined.

[Rinchen Dorje]

cool..thanks

[jet.urgyen]

this is high level stuff

[Rinchen Dorje]

Been a while since I posted this...was wondering if anyone had any more info...

[jet.urgyen]

Been a while since I posted this...was wondering if anyone had any more info...

maybe is more important for attaining the longde knowledge. GNG is directly linked to it.

[Drenpa]

ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...

Kye-rim. Control of vayu is the root of all siddhis. All of the qualities are complete in every deity, emphasis on one thing or another is for us on the path. Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge.

[lelopa]

ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...

Kye-rim. Control of vayu is the root of all siddhis. All of the qualities are complete in every deity, emphasis on one thing or another is for us on the path. Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge.

[Rinchen Dorje]

ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...

Kye-rim. Control of vayu is the root of all siddhis. All of the qualities are complete in every deity, emphasis on one thing or another is for us on the path. Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge.

Interesting...had not heard that before..my understanding from ChNN was that this is a anu/ati guruyoga practice which by definition would transcend kyerim...perhaps you could elaborate? Found "Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge." to be particularly interesting...

[Drenpa]

ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...

Kye-rim. Control of vayu is the root of all siddhis. All of the qualities are complete in every deity, emphasis on one thing or another is for us on the path. Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge.

Interesting...had not heard that before..my understanding from ChNN was that this is a anu/ati guruyoga practice which by definition would transcend kyerim...perhaps you could elaborate? Found "Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge." to be particularly interesting...

Sorry, I wasn't very clear here, conflating Tantric terminology with Dzogchen. Not saying this particular practice isn't done anu yoga style or that there is really anything to generate or create. I was referring very generally to creation/completion stage in response to the question of "HNG, what for?" in the sense that any so called generation stage practice that works with vajra-body, deity yoga etc. can be very useful to make a nice situation for us while we practice with Dzogchen view and work on stabilizing and integrating that knowledge. Accomplishing one Deity practice develops all of the qualities. This, regardless of whether we do instantaneous or gradual transformation. Even when there is full confidence in the view and one is capable of practicing Upadesha methods. A lot has been written about this in this very forum. Yes, there is a point at which there is no need to create anything, as our real nature is self-arising. The function of Longde as Norbu Rinpoche taught, is precisely to realize this and "go beyond doubt" or "decide upon one thing" . Other methods can have he same function.

[heart]

I never think it was the ChNNR's idea that all deities have particular secondary aim such as longevity, compassion and so on. It is obvious that the main purpose of all deities is enlightenment but that in the DC we practice deities for the secondary benefits since the main practice is Dzogchen.
Also, Guru Yoga, no matter how profound, don't transcend kyerim. Kyerim is a method that is used in all the inner tantras in various ways. In the Longde taught by Rinpoche you do Ngondzog Gyalpo as a guru yoga but there are also sadhanas in Longde where you are Ngondzog Gyalpo, a regular guru sadhana. Rinpoche didn't give those teachings but they are still there.

/magnus

[lelopa]

In the book Chögyal Namkhai Norbu: "Mantras and Invocations for the Practices of the Dzogchen Community"
you'll find the NgG-Mantra in the Transformation-chapter & not in the Guruyoga chapter

[jet.urgyen]

In the book Chögyal Namkhai Norbu: "Mantras and Invocations for the Practices of the Dzogchen Community"
you'll find the NgG-Mantra in the Transformation-chapter & not in the Guruyoga chapter

yes, but is no Yidam mantra. is like GP mantra we use in thun.

[heart]

In the book Chögyal Namkhai Norbu: "Mantras and Invocations for the Practices of the Dzogchen Community"
you'll find the NgG-Mantra in the Transformation-chapter & not in the Guruyoga chapter

Nevertheless he teach Ngondzog Gyalpo as a guru yoga in his Longde teachings.

/magnus

[lelopa]

In the book Chögyal Namkhai Norbu: "Mantras and Invocations for the Practices of the Dzogchen Community"
you'll find the NgG-Mantra in the Transformation-chapter & not in the Guruyoga chapter

yes, but is no Yidam mantra. is like GP mantra we use in thun.

it is also the yidam-mantra.
there exist a standing, dancing heruka form of NgG with this mantra

[heart]

In the book Chögyal Namkhai Norbu: "Mantras and Invocations for the Practices of the Dzogchen Community"
you'll find the NgG-Mantra in the Transformation-chapter & not in the Guruyoga chapter

yes, but is no Yidam mantra. is like GP mantra we use in thun.

it is also the yidam-mantra.
there exist a standing, dancing heruka form of NgG with this mantra

Yes, like I mentioned before. Malcolm mentioned to me that it is also taught by ChNNR in the book "Teachings on Longde". There Rinpoche also mention other forms of NgG.

/magnus