Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
- Rinchen Dorje
- Posts: 1057
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm
Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
I think only for enlightenment, but who knows.Fa Dao wrote:ChNN has said that for longevity you do Amitayus practice, for Wisdom..Manjushri, for compassion..Chenrezi..etc. What is Ngondzog Gyalpo practice done for? Besides the obvious, Realization/Enlightenment...
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5694
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- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.
In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.
In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- Rinchen Dorje
- Posts: 1057
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Thanks for responding Cone. Is he yidam or guru in Longde? or both? If you could elaborate more the connection to Longde I would really appreciate it. ChNN has talked about this a bit in his Longde teachings re: Pang Mipham Gonpo, but any other info would be nice.conebeckham wrote:Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.
In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5694
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Fa Dao wrote:Thanks for responding Cone. Is he yidam or guru in Longde? or both? If you could elaborate more the connection to Longde I would really appreciate it. ChNN has talked about this a bit in his Longde teachings re: Pang Mipham Gonpo, but any other info would be nice.conebeckham wrote:Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.
In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.
I think a Yidam, but Malcolm would be a much better source.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
He is both, there is a guruyoga and yidam practice of Ngondzog Gyalpo in Rinpoche´s teachings. He usually teaches the guruyoga with his longde teachings, he has rarely taught yidam practice of NG, he does teach in in the contexts of SMS level four.Fa Dao wrote:Thanks for responding Cone. Is he yidam or guru in Longde? or both? If you could elaborate more the connection to Longde I would really appreciate it. ChNN has talked about this a bit in his Longde teachings re: Pang Mipham Gonpo, but any other info would be nice.conebeckham wrote:Ngondzok Gyalpo is a deity's name that appears in different places, diiferent mandalas, including in Chogling's Tukdrup Barchay Kunsel, and in some ShiTro pratices, where I think the name is equivalent to Chemchok Heruka. It's also the main yidam deity in the system of Dzogchen LongDe.
In general, the purpose is to attain extraordinary siddhis--Enlightenment. It's also associated with "qualities," from amongst the fivefold catagorization of Body/Speech/Mind/Qualities/Activity.
The connection is as follows - a buddha by the name of Ngondzog Gyalpo is one of the 12 ancient dzogchen teachers, 10 of which came before Buddha Shakyamuni (the 11th) and Garab Dorje (the 12th), his teaching were tantras of longde class.
Also there is a yidam Ngondzog Gyalpo in Mamo Botong tantra, which was the main practice of Pang Mipham Gonpo, before he recieved longde teachings from Vairochana. So from that time on practice of NG and Longde became intertwined.
- Rinchen Dorje
- Posts: 1057
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
cool..thanks
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
this is high level stuff
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
- Rinchen Dorje
- Posts: 1057
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Been a while since I posted this...was wondering if anyone had any more info...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
maybe is more important for attaining the longde knowledge. GNG is directly linked to it.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Kye-rim. Control of vayu is the root of all siddhis. All of the qualities are complete in every deity, emphasis on one thing or another is for us on the path. Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge.
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Lost In Transmission
- Rinchen Dorje
- Posts: 1057
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Interesting...had not heard that before..my understanding from ChNN was that this is a anu/ati guruyoga practice which by definition would transcend kyerim...perhaps you could elaborate? Found "Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge." to be particularly interesting...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Sorry, I wasn't very clear here, conflating Tantric terminology with Dzogchen. Not saying this particular practice isn't done anu yoga style or that there is really anything to generate or create. I was referring very generally to creation/completion stage in response to the question of "HNG, what for?" in the sense that any so called generation stage practice that works with vajra-body, deity yoga etc. can be very useful to make a nice situation for us while we practice with Dzogchen view and work on stabilizing and integrating that knowledge. Accomplishing one Deity practice develops all of the qualities. This, regardless of whether we do instantaneous or gradual transformation. Even when there is full confidence in the view and one is capable of practicing Upadesha methods. A lot has been written about this in this very forum. Yes, there is a point at which there is no need to create anything, as our real nature is self-arising. The function of Longde as Norbu Rinpoche taught, is precisely to realize this and "go beyond doubt" or "decide upon one thing" . Other methods can have he same function.Fa Dao wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2019 12:40 pmInteresting...had not heard that before..my understanding from ChNN was that this is a anu/ati guruyoga practice which by definition would transcend kyerim...perhaps you could elaborate? Found "Heruka Ngondzog Gyalpo is the vajra bridge." to be particularly interesting...
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
I never think it was the ChNNR's idea that all deities have particular secondary aim such as longevity, compassion and so on. It is obvious that the main purpose of all deities is enlightenment but that in the DC we practice deities for the secondary benefits since the main practice is Dzogchen.
Also, Guru Yoga, no matter how profound, don't transcend kyerim. Kyerim is a method that is used in all the inner tantras in various ways. In the Longde taught by Rinpoche you do Ngondzog Gyalpo as a guru yoga but there are also sadhanas in Longde where you are Ngondzog Gyalpo, a regular guru sadhana. Rinpoche didn't give those teachings but they are still there.
/magnus
Also, Guru Yoga, no matter how profound, don't transcend kyerim. Kyerim is a method that is used in all the inner tantras in various ways. In the Longde taught by Rinpoche you do Ngondzog Gyalpo as a guru yoga but there are also sadhanas in Longde where you are Ngondzog Gyalpo, a regular guru sadhana. Rinpoche didn't give those teachings but they are still there.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
In the book Chögyal Namkhai Norbu: "Mantras and Invocations for the Practices of the Dzogchen Community"
you'll find the NgG-Mantra in the Transformation-chapter & not in the Guruyoga chapter
you'll find the NgG-Mantra in the Transformation-chapter & not in the Guruyoga chapter
Lost In Transmission
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Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
yes, but is no Yidam mantra. is like GP mantra we use in thun.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Nevertheless he teach Ngondzog Gyalpo as a guru yoga in his Longde teachings.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
it is also the yidam-mantra.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 2:12 pmyes, but is no Yidam mantra. is like GP mantra we use in thun.
there exist a standing, dancing heruka form of NgG with this mantra
Lost In Transmission
Re: Ngondzog Gyalpo purpose?
Yes, like I mentioned before. Malcolm mentioned to me that it is also taught by ChNNR in the book "Teachings on Longde". There Rinpoche also mention other forms of NgG.lelopa wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 10:32 pmit is also the yidam-mantra.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 2:12 pmyes, but is no Yidam mantra. is like GP mantra we use in thun.
there exist a standing, dancing heruka form of NgG with this mantra
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)