Well, Dzogchen will never be trendy since it cannot be practiced without a guru, unlike mindfulness or what passes for it these days.PuerAzaelis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:55 pmKind of like "Buddhism" too. I don't see may "fake Guru Rinpoche quotes" on the internet.
Morality of stockholding
Re: Morality of stockholding
Re: Morality of stockholding
Yeah, Dzogchen is not a method. And originally, it referred strictly to the end state, not to a method, a philosophy, or even
an approach.
Real Dzogchen can obviously never be put into practice by the masses, as eventually it requires hands-on face-to-face interaction with someone who is a genuine master. "Dzogchen", on the other hand, seems wildly popular now, with people claiming the word like Humpty-Dumpty did, to mean just what they intend it to mean, which usually implies some b.s. recycled hippie nonsense, or just mindfulness by another (more impressive-sounding) name.
Re: Morality of stockholding
Dzogchen is popular?tingdzin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:45 amYeah, Dzogchen is not a method. And originally, it referred strictly to the end state, not to a method, a philosophy, or evenan approach.
Real Dzogchen can obviously never be put into practice by the masses, as eventually it requires hands-on face-to-face interaction with someone who is a genuine master. "Dzogchen", on the other hand, seems wildly popular now, with people claiming the word like Humpty-Dumpty did, to mean just what they intend it to mean, which usually implies some b.s. recycled hippie nonsense, or just mindfulness by another (more impressive-sounding) name.
Maybe in some other world system.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Morality of stockholding
Interesting response; where do you live? I don't mean popular like Elvis or the Beatles were, I just mean among "spiritual" people. Among that subset of the population, it seems you can't swing a dead cat these days without hitting a "Dzogchen" practitioner.
Re: Morality of stockholding
The largest Dzogchen community seems to be Norbu Namkhai Rinpoche's one.
How many are they in the world ?
10 000 ?
20 000 at best ?
How many are they in the world ?
10 000 ?
20 000 at best ?
Re: Morality of stockholding
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.
Re: Morality of stockholding
I live in the United States.tingdzin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:41 amInteresting response; where do you live? I don't mean popular like Elvis or the Beatles were, I just mean among "spiritual" people. Among that subset of the population, it seems you can't swing a dead cat these days without hitting a "Dzogchen" practitioner.
There aren’t enough dead cats to swing here to hit a Dzogchen practitioner.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Morality of stockholding
Is it just me, or has this thread gone massively
Re: Morality of stockholding
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Morality of stockholding
You mean oil and gas companies. Solar and wind, not unethical at all.
Re: Morality of stockholding
According to buddhist morality:
"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."
— AN 5.177
There's nothing about gas or oil.
Re: Morality of stockholding
It's here:Ricky wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pmAccording to buddhist morality:
"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."
— AN 5.177
There's nothing about gas or oil.
business in poison
Re: Morality of stockholding
Damn!Ricky wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pmAccording to buddhist morality:
"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."
— AN 5.177
There's nothing about gas or oil.
You mean I might have to stop shooting the ducks I feed to the people I traffic?
And next time I do a deal in chemical weapons I can't offer the Crystal as a sweetener?
Seems a bit extreme if you ask me.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Morality of stockholding
It could be interpreted that way but probably not the original meaning.Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pmIt's here:Ricky wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pmAccording to buddhist morality:
"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."
— AN 5.177
There's nothing about gas or oil.
business in poison
Re: Morality of stockholding
It can definitely be interpreted that way, and originally the situation was different. We did not face the environmental crises we do now, and forms of energy we have now were unkown at that time.Ricky wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:08 amIt could be interpreted that way but probably not the original meaning.Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pmIt's here:Ricky wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm
According to buddhist morality:
"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."
— AN 5.177
There's nothing about gas or oil.
business in poison
kevin
Re: Morality of stockholding
And considering that energy business promotes violence, massive dying off of species, and human trafficking I'd say it includes many of the prohibited practices.Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pmIt's here:Ricky wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pmAccording to buddhist morality:
"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."
— AN 5.177
There's nothing about gas or oil.
business in poison
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Morality of stockholding
Re: Morality of stockholding
That's a good point. I agree. Also, since Buddhism is about individuals, individuals who experience sufferings, so by protecting a balanced healthy state of our environment we can help all of those individuals around. This allows us also to accumulate merit, or force, towards complete omnsicience, the final goal to which we aspire, as well. So therefore, we can move ahead and protect the enviroment and therefore all beings. It's a way of collecting merit that works naturally. The good result of which is human birth and so on and the ability to hear the teachings, like now. So our situation is tied to our merit, this is like going beyond just refraining from doing harm, but also engaging in that which is wholesome, or that which is source of future happiness, abilities, and so on. This dimension is very special and when we protect it, we do something that is nothing short of profound.
Kevin