Morality of stockholding

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Malcolm
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Malcolm » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:55 pm
tingdzin wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:31 am
Well, the term is so watered down now, it has become meaningless, just a way for people to feel trendy and "in" about what they're doing.
Kind of like "Buddhism" too. I don't see may "fake Guru Rinpoche quotes" on the internet.
Well, Dzogchen will never be trendy since it cannot be practiced without a guru, unlike mindfulness or what passes for it these days.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

tingdzin
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by tingdzin » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:45 am

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:41 pm
Dzogchen is not a 'method' although there is a process.
Yeah, Dzogchen is not a method. And originally, it referred strictly to the end state, not to a method, a philosophy, or even
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 pm

Well, Dzogchen will never be trendy since it cannot be practiced without a guru, unlike mindfulness or what passes for it these days.
an approach.

Real Dzogchen can obviously never be put into practice by the masses, as eventually it requires hands-on face-to-face interaction with someone who is a genuine master. "Dzogchen", on the other hand, seems wildly popular now, with people claiming the word like Humpty-Dumpty did, to mean just what they intend it to mean, which usually implies some b.s. recycled hippie nonsense, or just mindfulness by another (more impressive-sounding) name.

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Josef
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Josef » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:20 am

tingdzin wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:45 am
Simon E. wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:41 pm
Dzogchen is not a 'method' although there is a process.
Yeah, Dzogchen is not a method. And originally, it referred strictly to the end state, not to a method, a philosophy, or even
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 pm

Well, Dzogchen will never be trendy since it cannot be practiced without a guru, unlike mindfulness or what passes for it these days.
an approach.

Real Dzogchen can obviously never be put into practice by the masses, as eventually it requires hands-on face-to-face interaction with someone who is a genuine master. "Dzogchen", on the other hand, seems wildly popular now, with people claiming the word like Humpty-Dumpty did, to mean just what they intend it to mean, which usually implies some b.s. recycled hippie nonsense, or just mindfulness by another (more impressive-sounding) name.
Dzogchen is popular?
Maybe in some other world system.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

tingdzin
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by tingdzin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:41 am

Josef wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:20 am
Dzogchen is popular?
Maybe in some other world system.
Interesting response; where do you live? I don't mean popular like Elvis or the Beatles were, I just mean among "spiritual" people. Among that subset of the population, it seems you can't swing a dead cat these days without hitting a "Dzogchen" practitioner.

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Harimoo
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Harimoo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:55 pm

The largest Dzogchen community seems to be Norbu Namkhai Rinpoche's one.
How many are they in the world ?
10 000 ?
20 000 at best ?

Ricky
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Ricky » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm

There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.

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Josef
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Josef » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:23 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:41 am
Josef wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:20 am
Dzogchen is popular?
Maybe in some other world system.
Interesting response; where do you live? I don't mean popular like Elvis or the Beatles were, I just mean among "spiritual" people. Among that subset of the population, it seems you can't swing a dead cat these days without hitting a "Dzogchen" practitioner.
I live in the United States.
There aren’t enough dead cats to swing here to hit a Dzogchen practitioner.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Malcolm
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:07 pm

Is it just me, or has this thread gone massively :offtopic:
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Ricky
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Ricky » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 pm

Ricky wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.
Or meat for that matter.

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Inge
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Inge » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:59 pm

Inge wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:35 pm
Do you think is it immoral to own shares in a company that makes profits from its employees?
I suppose it is no worse than having money, as money is like having shares in the totality of the economy.

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Josef
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Josef » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:50 pm

Ricky wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Malcolm
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:55 pm

Josef wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:50 pm
Ricky wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
You mean oil and gas companies. Solar and wind, not unethical at all.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Ricky
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Ricky » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm

Josef wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:50 pm
Ricky wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
According to buddhist morality:

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

There's nothing about gas or oil.

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Malcolm
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pm

Ricky wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:50 pm
Ricky wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
According to buddhist morality:

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

There's nothing about gas or oil.
It's here:
business in poison
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Simon E.
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Simon E. » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:02 am

Ricky wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:50 pm
Ricky wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
According to buddhist morality:

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

There's nothing about gas or oil.
Damn!
You mean I might have to stop shooting the ducks I feed to the people I traffic?
And next time I do a deal in chemical weapons I can't offer the Crystal as a sweetener?
Seems a bit extreme if you ask me.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Ricky
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Ricky » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:08 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pm
Ricky wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:50 pm


Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
According to buddhist morality:

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

There's nothing about gas or oil.
It's here:
business in poison
It could be interpreted that way but probably not the original meaning.

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Virgo
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Virgo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:13 am

Ricky wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:08 am
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pm
Ricky wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm

According to buddhist morality:

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

There's nothing about gas or oil.
It's here:
business in poison
It could be interpreted that way but probably not the original meaning.
It can definitely be interpreted that way, and originally the situation was different. We did not face the environmental crises we do now, and forms of energy we have now were unkown at that time.

kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxPcu7F7gWg

http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

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Josef
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Josef » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:14 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pm
Ricky wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:19 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:50 pm


Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.
According to buddhist morality:

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

There's nothing about gas or oil.
It's here:
business in poison
And considering that energy business promotes violence, massive dying off of species, and human trafficking I'd say it includes many of the prohibited practices.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Ricky
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Ricky » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:31 am

Virgo wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:13 am
Ricky wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:08 am
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pm


It's here:

It could be interpreted that way but probably not the original meaning.
It can definitely be interpreted that way, and originally the situation was different. We did not face the environmental crises we do now, and forms of energy we have now were unkown at that time.

kevin
True, we should look after the environment.

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Virgo
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Re: Morality of stockholding

Post by Virgo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:03 am

Ricky wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:31 am

True, we should look after the environment.
That's a good point. I agree. Also, since Buddhism is about individuals, individuals who experience sufferings, so by protecting a balanced healthy state of our environment we can help all of those individuals around. This allows us also to accumulate merit, or force, towards complete omnsicience, the final goal to which we aspire, as well. So therefore, we can move ahead and protect the enviroment and therefore all beings. It's a way of collecting merit that works naturally. The good result of which is human birth and so on and the ability to hear the teachings, like now. So our situation is tied to our merit, this is like going beyond just refraining from doing harm, but also engaging in that which is wholesome, or that which is source of future happiness, abilities, and so on. This dimension is very special and when we protect it, we do something that is nothing short of profound.

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxPcu7F7gWg

http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

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