L ron gardner

climb-up
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by climb-up » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:17 pm

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

I got confused by the name and thought I was on a different forum. I was expecting to be talking about a fascinating psychic reader with a similar name. Oops.

I remember this guy! He has TONS of amazon reviews and they are absolutely ridiculous (in the literal sense of being worthy of ridicule).
He criticize ChNN's understanding of Dzogchen, explaining that he has no updated and revolutionized Dzogchen in the way he already had with Christianity (!?) and then he'll mention that he doesn't know why ChNN continually refers to the Dzogchen texts as tantras, because tantra is a path of transformation and different from Dzogchen.
WTF!?
I mean, I know that not knowing that there are dzogchen texts called tantras is very minor. It's not even very important, but the absolute lack of any sort of study required to not have come across this genuinely boggles the mind in someone who even purports to talk authoritatively, let alone revolutionize and update the system!

I recently proclaimed "Occult Tibet' by J.H. Brennan to be (IMO) one of the worst books ever for a very similar reason.
Who knows, maybe this guys books would actually take that prize...
...but I suspect I'll never know.

krodha
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by krodha » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:23 pm

His ignorance is astounding.

The subject of the most recent post he authored was a claim that Longchenpa promulgates the same transcendent "I" as Ramana Maharshi. His evidence was a brief section of Longchenpa's Dharmadhātu-ratna-kośa-nāma-vṛtti where he references an excerpt of the Kulayarāja tantra which explains the use of the first person singular pronoun "I" as a literary device that signifies the personified nature of mind, because the rhetorical style of the tantra is direct as opposed to indirect like Śravāka suttas and Mahāyāna sūtras.

The intention of the text is glaringly clear if you take the context into account, in that it is explaining the literary style employed in these texts and how it should be approached and understood (in order to avoid misconstruing the verbiage).

But of course in L Ron's "expert" opinion this is a literal proclamation that is suggesting there is an actual transcendent "I"... and your true nature is this universal, substantial identity, just as the Hindu dharmas teach.

The alleged credibility of the entire argument requires fixating on a single sentence and quite literally separating said sentence from all context and other sentences surrounding it. The level of willed ignorance and crafted cherry picking involved is staggering.

It's really quite insane. This is one of numerous examples of sloppy, biased, lazy, uneducated and willful ignorance exhibited by L Ron Gardner.

If anyone has a morbid curiosity and wants to witness this slow moving train wreck in action it is happening in a Facebook group called "Dharma Connection."

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:34 pm

krodha wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:23 pm
His ignorance is astounding.

The subject of the most recent post he authored was a claim that Longchenpa promulgates the same transcendent "I" as Ramana Maharshi. His evidence was a brief section of Longchenpa's Dharmadhātu-ratna-kośa-nāma-vṛtti where he references an excerpt of the Kulayarāja tantra which explains the use of the first person singular pronoun "I" as a literary device that signifies the personified nature of mind, because the rhetorical style of the tantra is direct as opposed to indirect like Śravāka suttas and Mahāyāna sūtras.

The intention of the text is glaringly clear if you take the context into account, in that it is explaining the literary style employed in these texts and how it should be approached and understood (in order to avoid misconstruing the verbiage).

But of course in L Ron's "expert" opinion this is a literal proclamation that is suggesting there is an actual transcendent "I"... and your true nature is this universal, substantial identity, just as the Hindu dharmas teach.

The alleged credibility of the entire argument requires fixating on a single sentence and quite literally separating said sentence from all context and other sentences surrounding it. The level of willed ignorance and crafted cherry picking involved is staggering.

It's really quite insane. This is one of numerous examples of sloppy, biased, lazy, uneducated and willful ignorance exhibited by L Ron Gardner.

If anyone has a morbid curiosity and wants to witness this slow moving train wreck in action it is happening in a Facebook group called "Dharma Connection."
:popcorn:

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Vasana
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by Vasana » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:16 am

krodha wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:23 pm

It's really quite insane. This is one of numerous examples of sloppy, biased, lazy, uneducated and willful ignorance exhibited by L Ron Gardner.

If anyone has a morbid curiosity and wants to witness this slow moving train wreck in action it is happening in a Facebook group called "Dharma Connection."
I think the number 1 pitfall that a lot of these 'teachers' make could probably be summarized as conflating the state of Dzogchen with the Dzogchenpa. They read about primordial liberation and effortless perfection and lots of other nice terms and then assume that because of that, the unripened state of the Dzogchenpa is already equivalent with the ripened fruition Dzogchen. For them, the ordinary 'chain of delusion' which is directly opposed to the meaning of the self-liberated state, isn't even remotely acknowledged as a possibility in their experience because the intellectual idea of a transcendentally free Dzogchen blinds them to the possibility that they might actually have to engage with a bit of deliberate effort on the path.

These are the very people that the texts warn us of and remind us that they're not suitable vessels for receiving the teachings as students, let alone suitable to be able to teach and transmit them. You can only hope that those seekers who get caught up in the charismatic crossfire of these 'teachers' can at least make an indirect connection with some real teachings and teachers.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Grigoris
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by Grigoris » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:43 am

I bet he has plenty of students.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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CapNCrunch
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by CapNCrunch » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:58 pm

he likes the word 'grok'
Well a Heinlein fan, even if he's a troll may yet have at least some redeeming qualities in there somewhere :)

Seriously though, I've encountered his effluvia from time to time and he seems to be a standard attention whore, attacking and disagreeing with anything high profile enough to bring the focus to him and his agenda and hodge-podge doctrine. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, agent Smith. Best ignored for sure. Starve the troll.
“I say good-bye to hope, but I also say goodbye to hope's disappointment.”

David Levithan

fckw
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by fckw » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:45 am

Well, apparently Ayn Rand woke him up, as he says (around 8' 43'' in the video.) I'd say: that says it all.

(I once tried to read through her Atlas book because I thought, hey, it's controversial, maybe I can learn something. Well, I had to stop reading at some point. All the narcissistic characters in her book were simply too much to bear for me.)

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CapNCrunch
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by CapNCrunch » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 pm

Well, apparently Ayn Rand woke him up, as he says (around 8' 43'' in the video.) I'd say: that says it all.
In fairness, he said she woke him put to 'sociopolitics', he wasn't making a statement there waking up in the Buddhist sense, although as already demonstrated, he comes off like a deluded narcissist at the very least with his proclamation he's the "consummate expert" in everything.

Before I met the dharma as a younger man with my first real job after college and making bank in the freewheeling 90's, I remember devouring Atlas shrugged and thinking it was profound. My how things change.

So as long as there's life, there's hope - what makes us proud and interests us one day, can become a source of shame as we grow up a bit.

In any event, this guy got a whole lot more ink than he deserves.

Out.
“I say good-bye to hope, but I also say goodbye to hope's disappointment.”

David Levithan

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Josef
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by Josef » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:43 am
I bet he has plenty of students.
I would imagine this is true.
People want it to be easy. Charlatans tend to be successful at attracting students because they offer a promise of easy elevation. Granted, that pursuit falls squarely within the eight worldly dharmas.
Authenticity is difficult. It requires diligence, honesty, and Patrulian self-reflection and critique.

Folks like Gardner and the Aroter offer a nice opportunity to play dressup without any of the actual challenge of being a practitioner of dharma.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Grigoris
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Re: L ron gardner

Post by Grigoris » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:42 pm

Josef wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 pm
I would imagine this is true.
People want it to be easy. Charlatans tend to be successful at attracting students because they offer a promise of easy elevation. Granted, that pursuit falls squarely within the eight worldly dharmas.
Authenticity is difficult. It requires diligence, honesty, and Patrulian self-reflection and critique.

Folks like Gardner and the Aroter offer a nice opportunity to play dressup without any of the actual challenge of being a practitioner of dharma.
Indeed!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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