receiving transmission

lee
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receiving transmission

Post by lee » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:28 am

Hi all,

I woke up not feeling very well today and today of all days is the wwt.

I am wondering what method can i use to receive the transmission that is not guruyoga, something that i can do whilst not feeling well that will still enable me to enter the state of rigpa?

Thank you

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Vasana
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Vasana » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:49 am

Well there are other methods to recognise and come to certainty about rigpa but they all require having had the direct introduction in the first place since it's not certain that you will immediately distinguish mind from nature of mind during the D.I transmission.

It usually only lasts about half an hour and i'm sure it's probably ok for you to sing veru quietly or even whisper along if you are too ill to sing. If you can muster up the wellness for 30-45 mins to participate you will at least then have access to the other Dzogchen preliminary methods that help one distinguish between sems and sem nyid.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

lee
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by lee » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:11 pm

thank you for your reply,

would the transmission still work if one was to meditate on the 3 main areas during the event, the base, the heart and the crown. would this still work? or does the transmissions have to be of the same as the master transmitting

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Vasana
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Vasana » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:28 pm

Needs to be the same as the master since it involves all 3 doors of body speech and mind. By'same', I mean as close as possible since pronunciation and mudras may be difficult to emulate perfectly if you have only just encountered them. I wouldn't worry so much if you still can't participate today as whenever Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche teaches, this is also technically a Direct Introduction (or so I've been told on here) so you may have more opportunities to proceed before the next worldwide transmission days.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

lee
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by lee » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:44 pm

thats exactly the reason as to why i asked, if this is also a direct transmission, then what need is the participation of guruyoga, in order to receive the state of rigpa, if the state of rigpa is being transmitted then surely the need to do the guruyoga to just receive the state is dualistic.

I will be taking part in a direct transmission that is not held by namkhai norbu at a retreat in 2018.

I have had the previous transmission in various systems, and all pose similarities to one another, i have never had a dzogchen direct transmission before so am unsure of what is involved.

I have read that some direct transmissions require nothing more than to be in the transmission space of the master, others require awareness in various areas of the body. very much mixed information on this.

lee
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by lee » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:51 pm

and another thing im very unsure about is, does one practice the preliminaries before or after the direct introduction.

from what i can grasp of the teaching is, it really depends on the master who you are learning under.

from what i get from various books is either way whether or not you have a direct introduction the preliminaries will empower the practitioner to rigpa, they are both used to enter into the state of rigpa and for that reason will it make the direct introduction more profound if one practices the preliminaries first hand.

I read a lot about people saying that if one has minimal or no entering into rigpa during the transmission, its fine because sooner or later it will come to those who have participated in transmission, but this itself is pretty much going against the points of being introduced and remaining in the state or am i missing something here?

Thank you in advanced.

Lee

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heart
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by heart » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:52 pm

lee wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:44 pm
thats exactly the reason as to why i asked, if this is also a direct transmission, then what need is the participation of guruyoga, in order to receive the state of rigpa, if the state of rigpa is being transmitted then surely the need to do the guruyoga to just receive the state is dualistic.

I will be taking part in a direct transmission that is not held by namkhai norbu at a retreat in 2018.

I have had the previous transmission in various systems, and all pose similarities to one another, i have never had a dzogchen direct transmission before so am unsure of what is involved.

I have read that some direct transmissions require nothing more than to be in the transmission space of the master, others require awareness in various areas of the body. very much mixed information on this.
If you don't want to participate (in the Guru Yoga) it minimise your possibility to receive the transmission. Anyway, it is over now so you can relax.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Vasana » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:17 pm

lee wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:44 pm
thats exactly the reason as to why i asked, if this is also a direct transmission, then what need is the participation of guruyoga, in order to receive the state of rigpa, if the state of rigpa is being transmitted then surely the need to do the guruyoga to just receive the state is dualistic.

I will be taking part in a direct transmission that is not held by namkhai norbu at a retreat in 2018.

I have had the previous transmission in various systems, and all pose similarities to one another, i have never had a dzogchen direct transmission before so am unsure of what is involved.

I have read that some direct transmissions require nothing more than to be in the transmission space of the master, others require awareness in various areas of the body. very much mixed information on this.
There's Guru Yoga as a method and set of self-empowerments and then there is the state of Guru yoga which entails recognizing and remaining in uncontrived equipoise; the 'unripened' rigpa of the path as opposed to the fully ripened rigpa of Buddhahood, afaik. The method is what helps reveal the state, it's not that a non-dual bit is just stuck on at the end. Sometimes dualistic methods that involve effort can lead us to be more receptive and capable of ditching the dualistic references moments later. As a basic analogy, half of what we call 'cooking' is preparing your food before hand! If you would prefer not to apply that method or couldn't due to illness, then there are also more quintisential introductions which might just be a descriptive pointing out when you're receptive to it. There's more than one entry point it seems.

The anniversary day guru yogas and introductions are just connected with things like time and place and practicing at the same time as the Guru to potentiate it all even more.

Some teachers give preliminaries pre d.i and some give it post as you mentioned. With N.N Rinpoche it's post but don't confuse the ngondro preliminaries with the preliminaries N.N.R teaches since they're not the same.

If you don't recognize during d.i or have minimal recognition then these dzogchen 'preliminaries' can clarify ( lojong, semdzin, rushan etc). It may sound contradictory but for most people, an actual recognition isn't going to last very long at all during D.I and it's unlikely you'll have confidence about your experience right away eithee. I.e, it will not necessarily be easy to just 'Remain in that state' on demand since the dualistic mind is so habitual. This is why you experiment and repeat the various methods and practices until it becomes clear that what you're actually trying to recognize is what you're indeed recognizing. You are then in effect, directly introducing yourself again and again until that knowledge/wisdom is uninterrupted but this is only possible if you're teacher has introduced you in the first place.

Only at that point does the rest of the path reallt entail 'remaining in that state' since you've now removed doubts or confusion about what that state is. It's no use 'remaining' in an immitation or semblance of the real thing.

This is my current understanding anyway and hopefuly others can correct me if anything I've said is innacurate.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

oldbob
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by oldbob » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:34 pm

:good:
in fact really good posting. :applause:

also Federica wrote to Norbunet:

Hello !

Around the world we all call the practice of the main anniversarys like
Transmission of Guru Yoga.
not introduction, not practice, but Transmission.
My question is what is actually being transmitted or passed from the Master to the student?
It is not more correct to use Introduction ( to the knowledge ) ?

This ''passage'' during the practice remain a bit misterious to me otherwise.

May be blessing?

Can someone help my understanding?

thanks so much

_________________________

Dear Federica,

In short, what is being transmitted is the state of non-dual Ati-guru yoga. You can also call this "direct introduction."

It is a transmission because it is an act of collaboration between a master who, at a certain time, intends to transmit, and a practitioner who intends to receive that transmission, at that certain time.

This is a different way of being than your normal consciousness.

It is a glimpse into the integrated - non-dual awareness of Ati-guru yoga contemplation.

How you experience this depends on what you bring to the event.

There is no right or wrong experience. Whatever you experience is OK.

If you feel that you did not "get" it that's ok too, and there are many other Dzogchen practices to allow you to feel you "get" it.

The feelings of "getting it" or not "getting it" are mental events (as are all thoughts and emotions) to be observed while resting in non-dual awareness. Neither is better or worse than the other. The key point is to integrate whatever occurs (or doesn't occur) with contemplation.

:stirthepot: :smile:

The main thing is to do your best and show up with attention.

So, don't worry if you missed the WWT or if you were sleepy or ill or low energy. Some say that somewhere in the universe there are always Masters giving transmission. It is what they do. Remember this if you get discouraged. It is kind of like remembering that the stars are still ALL shining during the day time.

:heart:

Also:

http://melong.com/events_listing/worldw ... r-13-2017/

Transmission is given at every retreat and the worldwide-transmission is given every few months. You can find the schedule in the Melong.

Best,

oldbob

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Re: receiving transmission

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:15 pm

Glad to have you here, Oldbob!
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

lee
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by lee » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:50 pm

wow, thank you for the amount of information on this everyone! I really appreciate it.

I did participate but i think due to being ill i did not connect to it.

however i will be attending the pundarika retreat in 2018 for a in person direct introduction!

I seem to be struggling with understanding the dzogchen preliminaries and the structure of dzogchen itself, any good reads to clarify the structure of that part of dzogchen? from what i understand is, secondary practices are depending on the individual's circumstances, preliminaries are for cultivating the recognition of rigpa ( correct me if im wrong on this ) then you have trekcho, togal and then phowa practices ( again correct me if im wrong )

not trying to jump ahead of course, just trying to get an understanding for the structure of the practice, especially the preliminaries.

Thank you

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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:57 pm

lee wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:50 pm

I seem to be struggling with understanding the dzogchen preliminaries and the structure of dzogchen itself, any good reads to clarify the structure of that part of dzogchen?
There is no structure, there is just rigpa and marigpa.

Kevin

lee
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by lee » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:04 pm

so with the practice of dzogchen i can literally use any type of practice, as long as it enables one to recognise and cultivate the state of rigpa? so if theirs no actual structure then why does such practices like trekcho and togal require certain experience that is not simply just a deep experience in rigpa, they are the two practices of dzogchen, and if dzogchen has no structure surely that means that anyone who has a deep recognition and experience in rigpa can practice.



is there any books or studies that even don't belong to the dzogchen teachings that have trekcho instructions and deep understanding information out there? not for practical purposes but for simply reading for now.

I already have a huge collection of literature of various subjects and have a mission on collecting

Simon E.
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Simon E. » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:49 pm

lee wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:04 pm
so with the practice of dzogchen i can literally use any type of practice, as long as it enables one to recognise and cultivate the state of rigpa? so if theirs no actual structure then why does such practices like trekcho and togal require certain experience that is not simply just a deep experience in rigpa, they are the two practices of dzogchen, and if dzogchen has no structure surely that means that anyone who has a deep recognition and experience in rigpa can practice.



is there any books or studies that even don't belong to the dzogchen teachings that have trekcho instructions and deep understanding information out there? not for practical purposes but for simply reading for now.

I already have a huge collection of literature of various subjects and have a mission on collecting

Before any other consideration, you need Pointing Out instruction from a qualified teacher able to give you it. My advice would be to donate your huge literature collection to a local charity bookshop and get down to basics...
"Any major dude with half a heart
Will surely tell you my friend,
Any minor world that breaks apart
Can fall together again.
Any major dude will tell you."

Steely Dan.

lee
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by lee » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:58 pm

and what are the basics, i seem to be asking things about the basics but seem to not be getting anywhere.

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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:16 pm

lee wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:04 pm
so with the practice of dzogchen i can literally use any type of practice, as long as it enables one to recognise and cultivate the state of rigpa?
Rigpa is what does the recognition. What it recognizes is the basis. The basis is the nature of the mind.
so if theirs no actual structure then why does such practices like trekcho and togal require certain experience that is not simply just a deep experience in rigpa, they are the two practices of dzogchen, and if dzogchen has no structure surely that means that anyone who has a deep recognition and experience in rigpa can practice.
Where did you ever get the idea Great Perfection teachings have no structure?

You cannot practice trekchö unless you understand the view, since the view is trekchö. Without understanding the view, you cannot practice the meditation, thögal.

Without a proper teacher, you will just lead yourself deeper in error about the meaning of Great Perfection teachings.
Atikosha
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Malcolm
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

lee wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:58 pm
and what are the basics, i seem to be asking things about the basics but seem to not be getting anywhere.
Since the Great Perfection is part of Secret Mantra, it is not really permissible to discuss these things openly in a public forum. Sorry.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

Simon E.
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Simon E. » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Ok..lets start from the beginning.
Have you received Pointing Out instruction from a teacher qualified to introduce you to your original mind? That is the most basic requirement.

I've posted my reply because I did not want you to think your question has been ignored by me...but Malcom's reply is much fuller..
"Any major dude with half a heart
Will surely tell you my friend,
Any minor world that breaks apart
Can fall together again.
Any major dude will tell you."

Steely Dan.

lee
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Re: receiving transmission

Post by lee » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:36 pm

well i attended the wwt yesterday but am also going to be going to the pundarika retreat next year.

My main need for wanting to know the structure of dzogchen is simply because the books i have read so far talk about learning exactly what dzogchen is prior to having a direct introduction.

obviously this is very deep stuff and is guarded very deeply and for someone new like myself, getting around even the basics is posing very difficult. i have no experience in Buddhism or anything. so advice is really appreciated, i am a member of the dzogchen community, but the size of it puts me off. I read that the student has to have a connection with the master or teacher, and something that big is surely going to pose hard to have a connection with the teacher.

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Re: receiving transmission

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:43 pm

lee wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:36 pm
well i attended the wwt yesterday but am also going to be going to the pundarika retreat next year.

My main need for wanting to know the structure of dzogchen is simply because the books i have read so far talk about learning exactly what dzogchen is prior to having a direct introduction.
What books have you read so far?
i have no experience in Buddhism or anything. so advice is really appreciated,
Ok, well, first you will probably want some grounding in Buddhism. For example, if you do not know what emptiness is, for example, according to Madhyamaka, you will never understand trekchö, let along thögal. You are trying to run before you have even learned to crawl.
i am a member of the dzogchen community, but the size of it puts me off. I read that the student has to have a connection with the master or teacher, and something that big is surely going to pose hard to have a connection with the teacher.
Some people think that having a guru is like having a personal tutor. It is not like that. I suggest you take a gradual approach, hook up with an SMS teacher, read The Precious Vase, and begin that way. Step by step.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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