Pointing out only 3 times?

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csmorg96
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Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by csmorg96 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 am

I recently read a teaching from a well respected teacher of dzogchen that states that a guru can only attempt to point out the nature of mind to a given disciple three times. Can anyone shed some light on why this teacher makes this claim? Have I misunderstood something?
Last edited by csmorg96 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Virgo
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:28 am

I dont know. I have never heard that before. All of my teachers have tried to point out the nature of mind to the disciples over and over again many times.

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
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heart
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by heart » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:44 am

csmorg96 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 am
I recently read a teaching from a well respected teacher of dzogchen that states that a guru can only attempt to point out the nature of mind to a given disciple three times. Can anyone shed some light on why this teacher makes this claim? Have I misunderstood something?
Who is the teacher? Could be a misunderstanding of the translator perhaps.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

csmorg96
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by csmorg96 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:39 pm

heart wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:44 am
csmorg96 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 am
I recently read a teaching from a well respected teacher of dzogchen that states that a guru can only attempt to point out the nature of mind to a given disciple three times. Can anyone shed some light on why this teacher makes this claim? Have I misunderstood something?
Who is the teacher? Could be a misunderstanding of the translator perhaps.


/magnus

I could PM you the teacher's name, but regardless, this teacher speaks perfect English.

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Aryjna
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by Aryjna » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:39 pm

csmorg96 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:39 pm
heart wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:44 am
csmorg96 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 am
I recently read a teaching from a well respected teacher of dzogchen that states that a guru can only attempt to point out the nature of mind to a given disciple three times. Can anyone shed some light on why this teacher makes this claim? Have I misunderstood something?
Who is the teacher? Could be a misunderstanding of the translator perhaps.


/magnus

I could PM you the teacher's name, but regardless, this teacher speaks perfect English.
But why would the teacher's name be a secret? Unless it is information protected by samaya or something like that.

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Malcolm
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:50 pm

csmorg96 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 am
I recently read a teaching from a well respected teacher of dzogchen that states that a guru can only attempt to point out the nature of mind to a given disciple three times. Can anyone shed some light on why this teacher makes this claim? Have I misunderstood something?
Really, what is the book in which this claim was made?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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heart
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by heart » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:17 pm

csmorg96 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:39 pm
heart wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:44 am
csmorg96 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 am
I recently read a teaching from a well respected teacher of dzogchen that states that a guru can only attempt to point out the nature of mind to a given disciple three times. Can anyone shed some light on why this teacher makes this claim? Have I misunderstood something?
Who is the teacher? Could be a misunderstanding of the translator perhaps.


/magnus

I could PM you the teacher's name, but regardless, this teacher speaks perfect English.
Yes, please I never heard that before.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

fckw
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by fckw » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:30 pm

It's the infamous three-strikes rule of Dzogchen. If you did not get it after the third time, you're forever-ever-ever lost. Sorry. Only thing left to you is go practice Mahamudra. Doesn't apply there.

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jkarlins
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by jkarlins » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:36 pm

wahp wahp wahp
down to the minor leagues of Mahamudra

:tongue:

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by PuerAzaelis » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:55 am

I’m still batting .476 there.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

climb-up
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Re: Pointing out only 3 times?

Post by climb-up » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:03 pm

Could it possibly have been a reference to the three different ways of direct introduction; oral, symbolic and direct?
...just a guess.

What does the teacher say will happen after the third time, if not fully successful (which, btw, another dharma wheel thread promises me it literally always is)?

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