private teaching

lee
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am

private teaching

Post by lee » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:50 pm

Hi everyone,

Please don't ban me if this is not allowed.

I seem to be having issues with finding a school that will teach to me personally on a regular basis, and this makes me wonder, is there anyone here or can recommend any authentic teachers who will willingly take on a fresh student to learn systems such as the preliminaries, generation and development stages via skype ect.

i do have centres near to where i live that teach but they do not have students they personally dedicate themselves to and this i find is a pity, it seems that most if not all the centres and organisations in the uk teach via retreat and for something as deep as dzogchen and nyingma its a bit of an issue if anyone is going to have real deep experience through this.

i can make donations for such things,


Blessings

Lee

philji
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 2:26 pm

Re: private teaching

Post by philji » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:56 pm

Not sure what centres you have been to in UK but if they have a resident lama, or one who spends time there it should be easy enough to arrange one to one instruction from time to time. Hhave you had a problem with this in the past?

lee
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am

Re: private teaching

Post by lee » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:18 am

philji wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:56 pm
Not sure what centres you have been to in UK but if they have a resident lama, or one who spends time there it should be easy enough to arrange one to one instruction from time to time. Hhave you had a problem with this in the past?
i have a few centres fairly close to me, no less than 50 miles away from where i live, i have three kids so regular travel is even difficult for now.

so far all the centres iv been in contact with have offered courses, retreats or seminars. I had the same issues when i was studying alchemy.

It's a shame because in the books iv read so far, masters we have here had root masters, teachers and had gained teachings from other practitioners, but here only the main masters seem to be teaching and this is done through mostly retreats once per year.

there seems to be a lot of miss understanding in who can teach and when, imo if the practitioner has realised a specific teaching through many years of practice and has completed to a high level, then they are qualified to teach that practice, qualification is done in this way in all meditative practices so i highly doubt dzogchen and its preliminaries are any different.

After much studies from many many books, i came to see the complete path of the teachings and now i understand what i need to be going for in this time, i'm just looking for an organisation or realised practitioner in the teachings of nyingma meditative practice, all the preliminaries ( including: phowa, khorde rushen, guruyoga, dream yoga & purification practices such as chod ) complete generation stage and development stage.

so in all not the actual teachings of dzogchen itself but rather the systems building up to the completion stages, a good decade of practice right there.

Lee

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heart
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Re: private teaching

Post by heart » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 am

lee wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:18 am
philji wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:56 pm
Not sure what centres you have been to in UK but if they have a resident lama, or one who spends time there it should be easy enough to arrange one to one instruction from time to time. Hhave you had a problem with this in the past?
i have a few centres fairly close to me, no less than 50 miles away from where i live, i have three kids so regular travel is even difficult for now.

so far all the centres iv been in contact with have offered courses, retreats or seminars. I had the same issues when i was studying alchemy.

It's a shame because in the books iv read so far, masters we have here had root masters, teachers and had gained teachings from other practitioners, but here only the main masters seem to be teaching and this is done through mostly retreats once per year.

there seems to be a lot of miss understanding in who can teach and when, imo if the practitioner has realised a specific teaching through many years of practice and has completed to a high level, then they are qualified to teach that practice, qualification is done in this way in all meditative practices so i highly doubt dzogchen and its preliminaries are any different.

After much studies from many many books, i came to see the complete path of the teachings and now i understand what i need to be going for in this time, i'm just looking for an organisation or realised practitioner in the teachings of nyingma meditative practice, all the preliminaries ( including: phowa, khorde rushen, guruyoga, dream yoga & purification practices such as chod ) complete generation stage and development stage.

so in all not the actual teachings of dzogchen itself but rather the systems building up to the completion stages, a good decade of practice right there.

Lee
Courses, retreats and seminars is the correct way to approach and gain some necessary confidence in a qualified teacher. It is actually a practice in itself this approaching the master. Then listen, contemplate and meditate on his teachings. Once you gain true confidence in a master the distance from him/her doesn't really matter that much.

In my tradition it is the master that tell the student to start teaching, for most of us it never happens. Not a big deal, it is a difficult job.

In Dzogchen you don't really build up to the completion stage, you are introduced already from the very beginning to the natural state.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

philji
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 2:26 pm

Re: private teaching

Post by philji » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:09 am

As Magnus/ Heart says , it is through courses and retreats that we develop confidence and trust in the teacher and what is taught. Take your time, if you are able visit a centre or a teacher from time to time. Be wary of some groups who ‘ throw’ students into a teachers role...... There are also some great online courses avaialble these days which may be looking at. The way in the oast was for the student to go to the teacher, receive instruction, go away and practice and then at some point return to the teacher to check in and perhaps continue...This is rarely possible these days.

lee
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am

Re: private teaching

Post by lee » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:02 am

heart wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 am
lee wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:18 am
philji wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:56 pm
Not sure what centres you have been to in UK but if they have a resident lama, or one who spends time there it should be easy enough to arrange one to one instruction from time to time. Hhave you had a problem with this in the past?
i have a few centres fairly close to me, no less than 50 miles away from where i live, i have three kids so regular travel is even difficult for now.

so far all the centres iv been in contact with have offered courses, retreats or seminars. I had the same issues when i was studying alchemy.

It's a shame because in the books iv read so far, masters we have here had root masters, teachers and had gained teachings from other practitioners, but here only the main masters seem to be teaching and this is done through mostly retreats once per year.

there seems to be a lot of miss understanding in who can teach and when, imo if the practitioner has realised a specific teaching through many years of practice and has completed to a high level, then they are qualified to teach that practice, qualification is done in this way in all meditative practices so i highly doubt dzogchen and its preliminaries are any different.

After much studies from many many books, i came to see the complete path of the teachings and now i understand what i need to be going for in this time, i'm just looking for an organisation or realised practitioner in the teachings of nyingma meditative practice, all the preliminaries ( including: phowa, khorde rushen, guruyoga, dream yoga & purification practices such as chod ) complete generation stage and development stage.

so in all not the actual teachings of dzogchen itself but rather the systems building up to the completion stages, a good decade of practice right there.

Lee
Courses, retreats and seminars is the correct way to approach and gain some necessary confidence in a qualified teacher. It is actually a practice in itself this approaching the master. Then listen, contemplate and meditate on his teachings. Once you gain true confidence in a master the distance from him/her doesn't really matter that much.

In my tradition it is the master that tell the student to start teaching, for most of us it never happens. Not a big deal, it is a difficult job.

In Dzogchen you don't really build up to the completion stage, you are introduced already from the very beginning to the natural state.

/magnus
in terms of the courses ect, for me this way of learning is not going to be very practical. for me the only reason im learning dzogchen is to be released for transmigration and become a benefit to all, with such a deep topic, learning in small amounts in retreats is going to take a very long time, although dzogchen is classed as swift, it is still a long path for those even living with a master let alone someone studying in retreats and courses a few times per year.

as for doing the systems before dzogchen, to me this is going to be the most effective way, i do not wish to be learning everything downwards but rather go from the bottom up method to this practice, working with the systems all the way up to the direct introduction and then main dzogchen practices after that. iv read a lot about people having no recognition of the natural state during their introduction and are then doing practices to recognise the state, this to some may be a effective way of study and practice but to me it is not, so that method of practice is not something i shall be doing.

from what i can see, the practitioner gains experience in recognising the natural state through all the previous practices, developing the mind and energies to be able to receive and then stay within the natural state after transmission. the natural state can be found through the practices before the transmission an then the transmission just clarifies the state of which to continue in.

for me id rather work in this way because then i have developed enough to be able to continue in the state through the practice of trekcho and then togal, rather than having the transmission an then trying to develop it to have a real recognition of it.

from what im getting of it all, the only practices of dzogchen are trekcho and togal, the rest are from other systems, so to me yes with dzogchen practice the first thing you have is the direct introduction but still this is surely meant to be done after other practices, ngondro, generation, development and the completion stages, as they are systems of their own that exist on their own they cannot be classed as dzogchen teachings.

from my observations the teachings has 2 types of students, 1 who learns from top to bottom and 1 who learns from bottom to top, 1 will respond better to one method more than the other, from my previous practices i know that i respond better to working from bottom to top, working with the practices to cultivate capacity for the practices of dzogchen, but so far this has seemed very hard to even find an organisation who teaches in this way let alone who can teach on a more regular basis.

i also find that with a lot of organisations, theirs instructors and senior instructors, they are qualified to teach certain practices but yet only at a retreat or other even, so yet they are able to teach but only in the presence of a master.

in all the books and videos iv studied so far have all stated that the student must have a connection with the master or the teacher, if one can only see that master or teacher a few times per year with little or no contact with them, how can one have that connection? i find that hard to understand because if i was to see someone just a few times per year or even less i would not have a connection with them in a way i would someone i have regular contact with, if you are realised and can receive the teachings through dreams, telepathic information then thats a different story, but to have to have that DEEP connection with someone you see just a few times is a practice upon itself, and with so much to practice having added extras just seems a little strange.

please don't take my comments as negative towards the teachings

philji
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 2:26 pm

Re: private teaching

Post by philji » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:16 am

Lee, I admire your enthusiasm and motivation . With regards to the last point of developing a connection with the teache if you only see them a couple of times a year. From personal experience i have found that this can be done. For rather than developing a close physical connection it is the confidence and trust in what they teach that one needs to develop...this is the connection.It is not necessary to spend so much physical time with the teacher, in fact this can be a drawback as one may see or hear things which cause doubt. Learn...reflect and meditate....this is for many the way. Guru yoga is the mingling of ones mind with the wisdom mind of the teacher so this can be done anywhere. Good luck with your journey.

lee
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am

Re: private teaching

Post by lee » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:21 am

philji wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:09 am
As Magnus/ Heart says , it is through courses and retreats that we develop confidence and trust in the teacher and what is taught. Take your time, if you are able visit a centre or a teacher from time to time. Be wary of some groups who ‘ throw’ students into a teachers role...... There are also some great online courses avaialble these days which may be looking at. The way in the oast was for the student to go to the teacher, receive instruction, go away and practice and then at some point return to the teacher to check in and perhaps continue...This is rarely possible these days.
and thats the problem these days i think, the rareness of the authenticity of how it was taught compared to now, i have a lot of respect for those teaching, spending their precious time to devote to others, but it is difficult to get deeply involved with those teachers.

i have seen a few places putting students in teacher roles.

lee
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am

Re: private teaching

Post by lee » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:30 am

philji wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:16 am
Lee, I admire your enthusiasm and motivation . With regards to the last point of developing a connection with the teache if you only see them a couple of times a year. From personal experience i have found that this can be done. For rather than developing a close physical connection it is the confidence and trust in what they teach that one needs to develop...this is the connection.It is not necessary to spend so much physical time with the teacher, in fact this can be a drawback as one may see or hear things which cause doubt. Learn...reflect and meditate....this is for many the way. Guru yoga is the mingling of ones mind with the wisdom mind of the teacher so this can be done anywhere. Good luck with your journey.
Thank you :) i am deeply motivated, i spend about 4 hours of my daily time to study, im just lacking the guidance or the circumstances to be receiving the guidance, lama tony duff told me to do prayer for such things to manifest in the future,, so maybe in the future things will turn around.

in terms of guru yoga, can one practice this in dream yoga to manifest connection and dream teachings with the guru specified through the practice?

in fact can the practitioner take all the practices to the dream yoga and have manifested results from that? i did wonder a while ago if such things would work, i know people have a quick scan of study books and then in the dream they have the full set of pages to study in the dream, for example just simply looking at each page of a study book, allowing the subconscious to absorb the information and then in the dream manifest the book and have the actual pages word for word to learn from in a state that we would normally be doing nothing but watching. when they awake they look at the book and what they studied in the dream is confirmed in real life, so this to me tells me that in the dream state you can manifest actual results but in terms of things such as guru yoga, can this be done in the same way or even greater?

Lee

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heart
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Re: private teaching

Post by heart » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:31 pm

lee wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:02 am
heart wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 am
lee wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:18 am


i have a few centres fairly close to me, no less than 50 miles away from where i live, i have three kids so regular travel is even difficult for now.

so far all the centres iv been in contact with have offered courses, retreats or seminars. I had the same issues when i was studying alchemy.

It's a shame because in the books iv read so far, masters we have here had root masters, teachers and had gained teachings from other practitioners, but here only the main masters seem to be teaching and this is done through mostly retreats once per year.

there seems to be a lot of miss understanding in who can teach and when, imo if the practitioner has realised a specific teaching through many years of practice and has completed to a high level, then they are qualified to teach that practice, qualification is done in this way in all meditative practices so i highly doubt dzogchen and its preliminaries are any different.

After much studies from many many books, i came to see the complete path of the teachings and now i understand what i need to be going for in this time, i'm just looking for an organisation or realised practitioner in the teachings of nyingma meditative practice, all the preliminaries ( including: phowa, khorde rushen, guruyoga, dream yoga & purification practices such as chod ) complete generation stage and development stage.

so in all not the actual teachings of dzogchen itself but rather the systems building up to the completion stages, a good decade of practice right there.

Lee
Courses, retreats and seminars is the correct way to approach and gain some necessary confidence in a qualified teacher. It is actually a practice in itself this approaching the master. Then listen, contemplate and meditate on his teachings. Once you gain true confidence in a master the distance from him/her doesn't really matter that much.

In my tradition it is the master that tell the student to start teaching, for most of us it never happens. Not a big deal, it is a difficult job.

In Dzogchen you don't really build up to the completion stage, you are introduced already from the very beginning to the natural state.

/magnus
in terms of the courses ect, for me this way of learning is not going to be very practical. for me the only reason im learning dzogchen is to be released for transmigration and become a benefit to all, with such a deep topic, learning in small amounts in retreats is going to take a very long time, although dzogchen is classed as swift, it is still a long path for those even living with a master let alone someone studying in retreats and courses a few times per year.

as for doing the systems before dzogchen, to me this is going to be the most effective way, i do not wish to be learning everything downwards but rather go from the bottom up method to this practice, working with the systems all the way up to the direct introduction and then main dzogchen practices after that. iv read a lot about people having no recognition of the natural state during their introduction and are then doing practices to recognise the state, this to some may be a effective way of study and practice but to me it is not, so that method of practice is not something i shall be doing.

from what i can see, the practitioner gains experience in recognising the natural state through all the previous practices, developing the mind and energies to be able to receive and then stay within the natural state after transmission. the natural state can be found through the practices before the transmission an then the transmission just clarifies the state of which to continue in.

for me id rather work in this way because then i have developed enough to be able to continue in the state through the practice of trekcho and then togal, rather than having the transmission an then trying to develop it to have a real recognition of it.

from what im getting of it all, the only practices of dzogchen are trekcho and togal, the rest are from other systems, so to me yes with dzogchen practice the first thing you have is the direct introduction but still this is surely meant to be done after other practices, ngondro, generation, development and the completion stages, as they are systems of their own that exist on their own they cannot be classed as dzogchen teachings.

from my observations the teachings has 2 types of students, 1 who learns from top to bottom and 1 who learns from bottom to top, 1 will respond better to one method more than the other, from my previous practices i know that i respond better to working from bottom to top, working with the practices to cultivate capacity for the practices of dzogchen, but so far this has seemed very hard to even find an organisation who teaches in this way let alone who can teach on a more regular basis.

i also find that with a lot of organisations, theirs instructors and senior instructors, they are qualified to teach certain practices but yet only at a retreat or other even, so yet they are able to teach but only in the presence of a master.

in all the books and videos iv studied so far have all stated that the student must have a connection with the master or the teacher, if one can only see that master or teacher a few times per year with little or no contact with them, how can one have that connection? i find that hard to understand because if i was to see someone just a few times per year or even less i would not have a connection with them in a way i would someone i have regular contact with, if you are realised and can receive the teachings through dreams, telepathic information then thats a different story, but to have to have that DEEP connection with someone you see just a few times is a practice upon itself, and with so much to practice having added extras just seems a little strange.

please don't take my comments as negative towards the teachings
Dzogchen teachings are always from the top Lee. However that doesn't mean that you don't do mind trainings, Ngondro, Kyerim, Dzogrim and so on. It means that you do those practices in an other way than if you where following a from the bottom up kind of approach.
You really need to take your time to find the right master. It is very important. To take Dzogchen teachings from someone that isn't qualified but within comfortable reach is a big mistake.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

lee
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am

Re: private teaching

Post by lee » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:15 pm

[/quote]

Dzogchen teachings are always from the top Lee. However that doesn't mean that you don't do mind trainings, Ngondro, Kyerim, Dzogrim and so on. It means that you do those practices in an other way than if you where following a from the bottom up kind of approach.
You really need to take your time to find the right master. It is very important. To take Dzogchen teachings from someone that isn't qualified but within comfortable reach is a big mistake.

/magnus
[/quote]

the view of this seems very different to what i have read and have been told by nyingma practitioners, light of wisdom goes from bottom to top in its chapters and how to practice, some of tulku urgyens work is written in the form of working from bottom to top too, i havent read it but was told that even the yeshe lama goes through its steps from bottom to top. otherwise wouldn't the practitioner be working with the main practices of dzogchen and then doing other related practices. but yet i see that everyone firstly has direct introduction before even being able to distinguish the empty mind.

plus if you work with the systems from bottom to top don't you accumulate empowerment from merit of practice? and for the main practices of dzogchen doesnt one need to have experience in many practices for it to even work? unsure if this is 100% accurate but doesnt togal require one to have practices in tummo and its related subjects? plus with tummo the practitioner reaches naturalness ( and special experiences ) and from what i can see thats extremely important for main practices

in terms of finding the right mater, yes this is very difficult indeed

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heart
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Re: private teaching

Post by heart » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:51 pm

lee wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:15 pm

Dzogchen teachings are always from the top Lee. However that doesn't mean that you don't do mind trainings, Ngondro, Kyerim, Dzogrim and so on. It means that you do those practices in an other way than if you where following a from the bottom up kind of approach.
You really need to take your time to find the right master. It is very important. To take Dzogchen teachings from someone that isn't qualified but within comfortable reach is a big mistake.

/magnus
the view of this seems very different to what i have read and have been told by nyingma practitioners, light of wisdom goes from bottom to top in its chapters and how to practice, some of tulku urgyens work is written in the form of working from bottom to top too, i havent read it but was told that even the yeshe lama goes through its steps from bottom to top. otherwise wouldn't the practitioner be working with the main practices of dzogchen and then doing other related practices. but yet i see that everyone firstly has direct introduction before even being able to distinguish the empty mind.

plus if you work with the systems from bottom to top don't you accumulate empowerment from merit of practice? and for the main practices of dzogchen doesnt one need to have experience in many practices for it to even work? unsure if this is 100% accurate but doesnt togal require one to have practices in tummo and its related subjects? plus with tummo the practitioner reaches naturalness ( and special experiences ) and from what i can see thats extremely important for main practices

in terms of finding the right mater, yes this is very difficult indeed
It isn't so different as you think Lee. I carry a copy of the Light of Wisdom around my neck all day long. I have done several Ngondro's and a number of deities practices and Dzogchen retreats. It isn't really one way or an other it all fit together very nicely in the end.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: private teaching

Post by Malcolm » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:05 pm

You should attend the webcast retreat of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and begin there. If you can, go to Tenerife, even better.

http://webcast.dzogchen.net
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: private teaching

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:14 pm

lee wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:50 pm
i can make donations for such things,
I'm available.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

diamind
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Re: private teaching

Post by diamind » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:53 am

What your asking is never going to happen. Sounds to me you just need to meet an authentic master and ask for instruction to get started.

However my advice is you start now! "you can't practice prostrations without a lung" said no lama ever!

But people on Dharmawheel will tell you the opposite. Like ngon-dro is this special thing that only the lama can give.BS!

If you visit any TB temple on the planet the first thing you will encounter is all preliminarys, no one is standing at the door saying, "No prostrations, no reciting mantras, no offerings, definitely NO generation of bodhichitta without the lung and blessings from the lama"!

Many people have a romantic idea of the guru guiding you in every aspect of your practice. They actually think they need it.

The reality is you get your practice and go away and finish it, then go back ask for more.

Asking for practice takes about 1 mintue then you practice for the next 10 years to finish. There's no need to see the guru every other day. You have received the blessings and that's good enough.

Also there's no need to bother the guru with questions, they always get answered eventually.

Finding a guru is important but don't let that get in the way with starting the preliminarys.

If you need alot of access to your teacher try and find one that doesn't run a massive international organisation. Maybe he might give you his phone number and tell you to call him if you need anything 😉

http://www.chamtrul-rinpoche.com/index. ... ed-kingdom

All the best!

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Vasana
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Re: private teaching

Post by Vasana » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:53 am

lee wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:30 am
in terms of guru yoga, can one practice this in dream yoga to manifest connection and dream teachings with the guru specified through the practice?

in fact can the practitioner take all the practices to the dream yoga and have manifested results from that? i did wonder a while ago if such things would work, i know people have a quick scan of study books and then in the dream they have the full set of pages to study in the dream, for example just simply looking at each page of a study book, allowing the subconscious to absorb the information and then in the dream manifest the book and have the actual pages word for word to learn from in a state that we would normally be doing nothing but watching. when they awake they look at the book and what they studied in the dream is confirmed in real life, so this to me tells me that in the dream state you can manifest actual results but in terms of things such as guru yoga, can this be done in the same way or even greater?

Lee
Yes, absolutely! It is said that we have much more clarity in the dream state so we can achieve swift results and make great leaps of progress practicing in this way.
Also, if we really dedicated and direct our intention to integrate sleep and dream for the benefit of all beings, the idea of the teacher being far away will reveal it's self to be just another one of our deluded thoughts.

Are you still attending the Tsoknyi Rinpoche retreat, Lee? As I previously said, I don't think you will have any regrets making a connection with Tsoknyi Rinpoche or Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. Even if it's just to read more in to them and scope them out, I don't think you'll regret it.

The thing to understand is that while there are traditional ways the path is presented with long slow progressions, there are also teachers who enable more flexibility and a swifter entry point to the escence of the teachings. It would be a good idea to identify the different ways the path can be taught and then weigh up the given reasoning behind that. As Magnus said, it's not really one way or the other and you can combine approaches and follow more than one teacher to whatever degree you feel most beneficial.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Vasana
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Re: private teaching

Post by Vasana » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:02 am

diamind wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:53 am

But people on Dharmawheel will tell you the opposite. Like ngon-dro is this special thing that only the lama can give.BS!

If you visit any TB temple on the planet the first thing you will encounter is all preliminarys, no one is standing at the door saying, "No prostrations, no reciting mantras, no offerings, definitely NO generation of bodhichitta without the lung and blessings from the lama!"
Well, there are different Ngondros out there. Of course you can do prostrations, generate Bodhichitta, make offerings and purify the mind but different systems have very particular ngondro sadhanas and these often need lung or at least the go ahead from an authorised teacher in that tradition.
diamind wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:53 am
Many people have a romantic idea of the guru guiding you in every aspect of your practice. They actually think they need it.

The reality is you get your practice and go away and finish it, then go back ask for more.
Yup! Some people may need that level of interaction but as you say, if you have recieved multiple instructiond and methodswith clear instructions all that's left is to just practice either one or many of them until you get results. Then when progress seems slow you seek more clarification.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Vasana
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Re: private teaching

Post by Vasana » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:10 am

Also, Lee,

James Low is teaching in Lekdanling in January. I don't know for certain but he may be able to offer skype and is a great teacher to connect with. He is a real wordsmith and can communicate the nuances and subtleties of Buddhist and Dzogchen view in a very very clear way.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Grigoris
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Re: private teaching

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:50 am

diamind wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:53 am
However my advice is you start now! "you can't practice prostrations without a lung" said no lama ever!
Which Lama said you can do Ngondro without a lung for the liturgy? One can start prostrations to the 35 Confession Buddhas, as this is a Sutra practice. It will build the merit for you to then accomplish your ultimate practice aims.

Ngondro practices are Vajrayana practices and as such there is a protocol, whether you like it or not. Not because it is special, but because Ngondro practices are tantric practices.

"Start Ngondro practices without lung" said no lama ever!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

diamind
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Re: private teaching

Post by diamind » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:51 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:50 am
diamind wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:53 am
However my advice is you start now! "you can't practice prostrations without a lung" said no lama ever!
Which Lama said you can do Ngondro without a lung for the liturgy? One can start prostrations to the 35 Confession Buddhas, as this is a Sutra practice. It will build the merit for you to then accomplish your ultimate practice aims.

Ngondro practices are Vajrayana practices and as such there is a protocol, whether you like it or not. Not because it is special, but because Ngondro practices are tantric practices.

"Start Ngondro practices without lung" said no lama ever!
My dear old friend! Nice to see you again. Let me learn you something....

Firstly, 35 Buddhas in the Tibetan tradition is taught as a vajrayana practice. Don't believe me? Go to a temple in Thailand and start talking about visualizing a merit field and they will freak the hell out. So regarding your statement "One can start prostrations to the 35 Confession Buddhas, as this is a Sutra practice" you are actually agreeing with me you CAN start practice vajrayana without a lung.

Secondly, here's what a lineage holder said when a student asked what they can practice without empowerment regarding "The Dakini Heart Essence" from the Dudjom Tersar (a text which is about as vajrayana and esoteric as we are ever going to get).

“Heres what you can practice without receiving an empowerment, the two prayers of aspiration, the foundational practices, or the ngon-dro, the essential sadhanas of all the four dakinis, chod, the feast offering, extensive yeshe sogyal sadhana practice.

Its not illegal to do any of these practices without empowerment, but to really fully benefit you should really receive empowerment and SECONDLY you should receive lung and thirdly, you should receive instruction, so you can kind of embark on your own but its like not optimum by any means.” Lama Yeshe Dechen Wangmo

In my experience its only the students who say you can do this and you can do that, they fixate on all the rules. In reality when go ask your lama about the commitments and rules they crack up laughing and tell you to try your best.

Anyway, I think its about time for people on this forum and everywhere else on the planet to stop saying categorically "you cant practice things without lungs and empowerment" because the truth is you can!

Its detrimental to people practice. They should be practicing this second not waiting for a mythical lung because some ignorant person told them they needed one. This is a huge sin in my opinion.

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