Skillful means and Dzogchen

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CedarTree
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by CedarTree » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:44 pm

Virgo wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:46 am
CedarTree wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:55 pm

Please elaborate :)
Namkhai Norbu might teach on this in the next couple of days.

Kevin
You know I like your views ;) start opening up it's a forum.

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Virgo
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Virgo » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:51 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:44 pm
You know I like your views ;) start opening up it's a forum.
Its the kind of thing you should hear from a Guru, failing that, an expert like Malcolm, but he doesn't have time to answer every post.

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

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CedarTree
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by CedarTree » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:02 pm

Virgo wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:51 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:44 pm
You know I like your views ;) start opening up it's a forum.
Its the kind of thing you should hear from a Guru, failing that, an expert like Malcolm, but he doesn't have time to answer every post.

Kevin
You have learned them, pass it on brother ;)

Lol in all honesty you don't give yourself enough credit, excellent knowledge source. Should help and answer as you are probably better than a lot of gurus out there maybe not counting the most famous and accomplished.

Practice, Practice, Practice

Norwegian
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Norwegian » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:11 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:02 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:51 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:44 pm
You know I like your views ;) start opening up it's a forum.
Its the kind of thing you should hear from a Guru, failing that, an expert like Malcolm, but he doesn't have time to answer every post.

Kevin
You have learned them, pass it on brother ;)

Lol in all honesty you don't give yourself enough credit, excellent knowledge source. Should help and answer as you are probably better than a lot of gurus out there maybe not counting the most famous and accomplished.
You're full of it.

We are not teachers here. We're just forum posters. Dzogchen you don't learn on a forum. You learn from a qualified Dzogchen master.

Please respect that.

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Virgo
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Virgo » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:54 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:02 pm

Lol in all honesty you don't give yourself enough credit, excellent knowledge source. Should help and answer as you are probably better than a lot of gurus out there maybe not counting the most famous and accomplished.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I lack the requisite qualifications. I am the type of person that wishes to help support the Teachers he has confidence in.

Kevih
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

Simon E.
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Simon E. » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:39 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:11 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:02 pm
Virgo wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:51 pm


Its the kind of thing you should hear from a Guru, failing that, an expert like Malcolm, but he doesn't have time to answer every post.

Kevin
You have learned them, pass it on brother ;)

Lol in all honesty you don't give yourself enough credit, excellent knowledge source. Should help and answer as you are probably better than a lot of gurus out there maybe not counting the most famous and accomplished.
You're full of it.

We are not teachers here. We're just forum posters. Dzogchen you don't learn on a forum. You learn from a qualified Dzogchen master.

Please respect that.
This.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Simon E.
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Simon E. » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:40 pm

Virgo wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:54 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:02 pm

Lol in all honesty you don't give yourself enough credit, excellent knowledge source. Should help and answer as you are probably better than a lot of gurus out there maybe not counting the most famous and accomplished.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I lack the requisite qualifications. I am the type of person that wishes to help support the Teachers he has confidence in.

Kevih
And this...
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Crazywisdom
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Crazywisdom » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:46 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:17 pm
makewhisper wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:10 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:00 pm


Intentional action is always a product of the sems 'byung or caitta, called "cetana" or volition; a mental factor always which accompanies the mind (citta, sems).
Thank you for your response Malcolm. Does the spontaneous compassion of the basis produce action in the same way that mind produces action? Is the difference simply that cetana-motivated action produces karma while the spontaneous expression of rigpa in behavior does not? It seems like cetana is almost like a "middle man" in the compassion > volition > action chain. Is rigpa more like compassion > action? I think I'm trying to wrap my head around how the continuity of one's character traits and behaviors is maintained following a direct encounter with one's own nature. Why don't those with direct knowledge of rigpa engage in precisely the same actions when dwelling in their own state? I've seen on this forum where you've posted that minds are individual yet possessing the same qualities. This makes sense to me. In the state of rigpa, are we all simply acting precisely the way Samantabhadra would act in the presence of someone without knowledge of their own state?
When one has direct knowledge of one's own state, and sees that it is the solution to the existential problem for suffering, one automatically feels compassion for those that do not have this knowledge. It is just like someone who has fire seeing how the lives of those who do not know how to make fire will be immeasurably improved if they learned how to make fire.

The compassion of the basis however, is something else entirely. It is related to the nirmanakāya. Samantabhadra does not have a mind, per se. The activity of the buddhas is beyond thought, karma, etc. It is like the action of a wishfulfilling gem.
Dude all the wish-fulfilling gems I run across on a daily basis are real party animals.
Vajra Killah Killallaya

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:04 am

Crazywisdom wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:46 am
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:17 pm
makewhisper wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:10 pm
Thank you for your response Malcolm. Does the spontaneous compassion of the basis produce action in the same way that mind produces action? Is the difference simply that cetana-motivated action produces karma while the spontaneous expression of rigpa in behavior does not? It seems like cetana is almost like a "middle man" in the compassion > volition > action chain. Is rigpa more like compassion > action? I think I'm trying to wrap my head around how the continuity of one's character traits and behaviors is maintained following a direct encounter with one's own nature. Why don't those with direct knowledge of rigpa engage in precisely the same actions when dwelling in their own state? I've seen on this forum where you've posted that minds are individual yet possessing the same qualities. This makes sense to me. In the state of rigpa, are we all simply acting precisely the way Samantabhadra would act in the presence of someone without knowledge of their own state?
When one has direct knowledge of one's own state, and sees that it is the solution to the existential problem for suffering, one automatically feels compassion for those that do not have this knowledge. It is just like someone who has fire seeing how the lives of those who do not know how to make fire will be immeasurably improved if they learned how to make fire.

The compassion of the basis however, is something else entirely. It is related to the nirmanakāya. Samantabhadra does not have a mind, per se. The activity of the buddhas is beyond thought, karma, etc. It is like the action of a wishfulfilling gem.
Dude all the wish-fulfilling gems I run across on a daily basis are real party animals.
This.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

amanitamusc
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:48 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:04 am
Crazywisdom wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:46 am
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:17 pm


When one has direct knowledge of one's own state, and sees that it is the solution to the existential problem for suffering, one automatically feels compassion for those that do not have this knowledge. It is just like someone who has fire seeing how the lives of those who do not know how to make fire will be immeasurably improved if they learned how to make fire.

The compassion of the basis however, is something else entirely. It is related to the nirmanakāya. Samantabhadra does not have a mind, per se. The activity of the buddhas is beyond thought, karma, etc. It is like the action of a wishfulfilling gem.
Dude all the wish-fulfilling gems I run across on a daily basis are real party animals.
This.
Is foolish.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:27 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:48 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:04 am
Crazywisdom wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:46 am
Dude all the wish-fulfilling gems I run across on a daily basis are real party animals.
This.
Is foolish.
And this...
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

amanitamusc
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:15 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:27 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:48 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:04 am


This.
Is foolish.
And this...
Is not.

Crazywisdom
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Crazywisdom » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:37 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:27 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:48 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:04 am


This.
Is foolish.
And this...
Is a fool
Vajra Killah Killallaya

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:51 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:37 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:27 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:48 am
Is foolish.
And this...
Is a fool
Oh snap!
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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CedarTree
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by CedarTree » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:16 pm

Then don't post on forums and close the section completely :)

Many here should be wise enough to know the difference between looking for the crumbs of skillfull information that can be very helpful and looking for the moments of direct encountering with a teacher.

I know this is a forum and so do others. People aren't stupid.

Grow up and show your cards if you have any and allow things to sprout and grow.

If you don't have any cards that's fine.

And don't think only teachers have cards. The great teachers have something of a different nature than tidbits of knowledge and philosophical questions. You all should know this in your practice.

Learn the differences friends and why this forum exists.

(Before someone tries to make some quick jabs I know it's more complicated than this but it is also beyond the paradigms your trying to apply as "It" on it.)

Practice, Practice, Practice

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by PuerAzaelis » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:24 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:16 pm
Then don't post on forums and close the section completely :)
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Multiple characters, Battlestar Galactica
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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CedarTree
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by CedarTree » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:27 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:24 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:16 pm
Then don't post on forums and close the section completely :)
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Multiple characters, Battlestar Galactica
Love it lol :)

Practice, Practice, Practice

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florin
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by florin » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:53 pm

What are you on about?
Who closed which forum and why?
What's going on?
The nature of diverse phenomena is non-dual. This means that both pure vision and impure vision are a manifestation of the energy of the primordial state. Even though in reality there is no duality, everything manifests separately. KG

Norwegian
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by Norwegian » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:00 pm

CedarTree,

This isn't Tao Bums, just FYI.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:01 pm

florin wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:53 pm
What are you on about?
Who closed which forum and why?
What's going on?

Probably a reference to the closing of the E-Sangha Dzogchen forum.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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