Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

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Rinchen Dorje
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Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Rinchen Dorje »

In the Longde Vajra bridge does anyone know if they used rushens and semdzins? And if so were they the same or different as the ones more commonly used?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm »

Fa Dao wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:13 pm In the Longde Vajra bridge does anyone know if they used rushens and semdzins? And if so were they the same or different as the ones more commonly used?
They do not.
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Rinchen Dorje
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Rinchen Dorje »

Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
florin
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by florin »

Fa Dao wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?

But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm »

Fa Dao wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?
So it seems.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm »

florin wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm
Fa Dao wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?

But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
Each level has its prelims and main practice.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by florin »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm
florin wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm
Fa Dao wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?

But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm »

florin wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:45 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm
florin wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm


But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.

That is due to ChNN's unique understanding of the relationship between the three statements and the three series. But the three statements of Garab Dorje as well as the three series found in the Nyinthig would have been unknown to Pang Mipham Gonpo, the two Dzengs, and so on. The Vajra Bridge literature does talk about three series, but they are sūtra, tantra, and ati; not sems, klong, and man ngag lde.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by florin »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:49 pm
florin wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:45 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm

Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.

That is due to ChNN's unique understanding of the relationship between the three statements and the three series. But the three statements of Garab Dorje as well as the three series found in the Nyinthig would have been unknown to Pang Mipham Gonpo, the two Dzengs, and so on. The Vajra Bridge literature does talk about three series, but they are sūtra, tantra, and ati; not sems, klong, and man ngag lde.
Of course.
But are you suggesting that longde can still be seen as an independent path that starts with longde and finishes with longde, and is totally separate, independent from any preliminaries or practices that we may think it should precede the main practice ?
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm »

florin wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:06 pm
But are you suggesting that longde can still be seen as an independent path that starts with longde and finishes with longde, and is totally separate, independent from any preliminaries or practices that we may think it should precede the main practice ?
Yes. The Vajra Bridge makes it pretty clear that this is the case.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by climb-up »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:49 pm
florin wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:45 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm

Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.

That is due to ChNN's unique understanding of the relationship between the three statements and the three series. But the three statements of Garab Dorje as well as the three series found in the Nyinthig would have been unknown to Pang Mipham Gonpo, the two Dzengs, and so on. The Vajra Bridge literature does talk about three series, but they are sūtra, tantra, and ati; not sems, klong, and man ngag lde.
I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm »

climb-up wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm
I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?
Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by climb-up »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 pm
climb-up wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm
I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?
Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
Oh, yes I guess it is then.
And it does need specific transmission right? Is it only given in SMS trainings?
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm »

climb-up wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 pm
climb-up wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm
I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?
Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
Oh, yes I guess it is then.
And it does need specific transmission right? Is it only given in SMS trainings?

ChNN gives Longde regularly, usually once a year or so.
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Rinchen Dorje
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Rinchen Dorje »

From the Mirror:
China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde

Unfortunately I dont know if it will be webcast or not...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Norwegian »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:14 pm
climb-up wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 pm

Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
Oh, yes I guess it is then.
And it does need specific transmission right? Is it only given in SMS trainings?

ChNN gives Longde regularly, usually once a year or so.
And this year's Longde retreat by ChNN is here:

China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde
Norwegian
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Norwegian »

Fa Dao wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:20 pm From the Mirror:
China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde

Unfortunately I dont know if it will be webcast or not...
If it is then I think it will be closed webcast like it's been before.
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climb-up
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by climb-up »

Yay, thanks!:)
Clsoed webcast jsut means member only right?
My membership is currently lapsed (life + kids =expensive), but I fully intended to renew it this year anyways.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by jet.urgyen »

Is difficult to get at samtengar?
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by amanitamusc »

Norwegian wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
Fa Dao wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:20 pm From the Mirror:
China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde

Unfortunately I dont know if it will be webcast or not...
If it is then I think it will be closed webcast like it's been before.
Was the 12\05-1\06 Longde retreat an open webcast.
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