Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

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Fa Dao
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Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Fa Dao » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:13 pm

In the Longde Vajra bridge does anyone know if they used rushens and semdzins? And if so were they the same or different as the ones more commonly used?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:52 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:13 pm
In the Longde Vajra bridge does anyone know if they used rushens and semdzins? And if so were they the same or different as the ones more commonly used?
They do not.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Fa Dao
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Fa Dao » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm

Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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florin
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by florin » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm
Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?

But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm
Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?
So it seems.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm

florin wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm
Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?

But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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florin
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by florin » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:45 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm
florin wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm
Interesting....Thanks Malcolm! So no prelims...they would just jump right in with Anuyoga style Ngondzog Gyalpo and 4 Da?

But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:49 pm

florin wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:45 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm
florin wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm



But if you do SMS program you would do lots of preliminaries before getting at the longde level isn't it ?
Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.

That is due to ChNN's unique understanding of the relationship between the three statements and the three series. But the three statements of Garab Dorje as well as the three series found in the Nyinthig would have been unknown to Pang Mipham Gonpo, the two Dzengs, and so on. The Vajra Bridge literature does talk about three series, but they are sūtra, tantra, and ati; not sems, klong, and man ngag lde.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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florin
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by florin » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:06 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:49 pm
florin wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:45 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm


Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.

That is due to ChNN's unique understanding of the relationship between the three statements and the three series. But the three statements of Garab Dorje as well as the three series found in the Nyinthig would have been unknown to Pang Mipham Gonpo, the two Dzengs, and so on. The Vajra Bridge literature does talk about three series, but they are sūtra, tantra, and ati; not sems, klong, and man ngag lde.
Of course.
But are you suggesting that longde can still be seen as an independent path that starts with longde and finishes with longde, and is totally separate, independent from any preliminaries or practices that we may think it should precede the main practice ?
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:11 pm

florin wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:06 pm

But are you suggesting that longde can still be seen as an independent path that starts with longde and finishes with longde, and is totally separate, independent from any preliminaries or practices that we may think it should precede the main practice ?
Yes. The Vajra Bridge makes it pretty clear that this is the case.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

climb-up
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by climb-up » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:49 pm
florin wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:45 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm


Each level has its prelims and main practice.
Yes that is what i meant more or less.
I could be wrong but in my understanding, the view of CNNR when it comes to longde about when and in what circumstances we should praxtice it, assumes that we have tried lots of preliminaries and variety of practices that develop capacity for contemplation had some experiences developed some unerstanding yet we are still uncertain about our real nature.

That is due to ChNN's unique understanding of the relationship between the three statements and the three series. But the three statements of Garab Dorje as well as the three series found in the Nyinthig would have been unknown to Pang Mipham Gonpo, the two Dzengs, and so on. The Vajra Bridge literature does talk about three series, but they are sūtra, tantra, and ati; not sems, klong, and man ngag lde.
I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?

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Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm

I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?
Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

climb-up
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by climb-up » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm

I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?
Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
Oh, yes I guess it is then.
And it does need specific transmission right? Is it only given in SMS trainings?

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Malcolm
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:14 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm

I don't have transmissions for Longde (I am correct that it requires it's own specific transmission, right?), but I am curious about this:
If ChNN's understanding of a teaching (longde in this case) is unique and not the same as generally taught or practiced it would seem that students of ChNN would practice according to his understanding. Is that correct or, having received transmission, are students free to investigate others understandings and come to their own conclusions?
Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
Oh, yes I guess it is then.
And it does need specific transmission right? Is it only given in SMS trainings?

ChNN gives Longde regularly, usually once a year or so.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Fa Dao
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Fa Dao » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:20 pm

From the Mirror:
China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde

Unfortunately I dont know if it will be webcast or not...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Norwegian
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Norwegian » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:20 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:14 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 pm


Well, apart from ChNN, no Tibetan teachers actually teach sems sde and klong sde in the west. So it is all kind of a moot point.
Oh, yes I guess it is then.
And it does need specific transmission right? Is it only given in SMS trainings?

ChNN gives Longde regularly, usually once a year or so.
And this year's Longde retreat by ChNN is here:

China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde

Norwegian
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by Norwegian » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:20 pm
From the Mirror:
China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde

Unfortunately I dont know if it will be webcast or not...
If it is then I think it will be closed webcast like it's been before.

climb-up
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by climb-up » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:17 am

Yay, thanks!:)
Clsoed webcast jsut means member only right?
My membership is currently lapsed (life + kids =expensive), but I fully intended to renew it this year anyways.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:11 am

Is difficult to get at samtengar?

amanitamusc
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Re: Longde/Vajra bridge rushens and semdzins

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:47 am

Norwegian wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:20 pm
From the Mirror:
China, Yichun, Jiangxi Province
October 4 – 8, 2018
Samtengar Retreat of Longsal Longde

Unfortunately I dont know if it will be webcast or not...
If it is then I think it will be closed webcast like it's been before.
Was the 12\05-1\06 Longde retreat an open webcast.

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