I thought it was just me. I'm getting too old for gibberish nested within circumlocutory abstract opaqueness when on a quest for mindful presence and clarity. That's me being aware, on topic, of course, not at all me being metameta discursive.Simon E. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:21 pmThis is total gibberish and has no more place in a Dzogchen thread than the trolling posts it is in response to.muni wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:00 amDear, I do not think the four reliances is rejecting a Master. Not to focus on the outer individual-personality-form is not the same as rejecting, perhaps its' to not feed dualistic perception (perceiver-perceived). But Guru is essential. Guru is Buddha - is awaken.In this prespective, in the standpoint of buddha, we have no other choice than the four reliances, 'a person' (or teacher) also is one of the element of uncertainty, every person has their own agenda and opinions, so can never be recommended as a source to be relied, in this case, only the dharma itself is the only reliable source, because the definitive dharma belongs to the side of the base which is changless and permanent. And as a 'buddha', our own view or understanding of the meaning of the scriptures that we relied is itself precious and has an authority on its own, it should not be judge/verify by the authority of person (or teacher) alone but by the meaning/truth of the dharma itself. This is the reason, we need the four reliances, and the reason why the Buddha want us to uphold them as his injunctions.
There is said if we perceive a human who is teaching us something, then we get teachings from a human. By Bodhisattva, it will be teaching from a Bodhisattva , or Buddha, it will be Awaken Nature teaching.
“Some of us really are looking for a master to follow. We think that someone out there can “fix” us and make our lives better. Others of us avoid teachers, often because of personal issues about authority figures. Or, we might think we are smart enough to “get” this by ourselves, and we don’t need anyone telling us what to believe.
Both of these extremes are pitfalls, and they are both rooted in the same self-other dichotomy, the same delusion.
Clinging to something or avoiding something both come from seeing oneself as separate from everything else. Liberation from this delusion is enlightenment.”
Again this is not rejecting the Guru, which is not just Nirmanakaya.
Talking of which, this thread came to mind when I saw this topic: