Donating one's organs at death

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm

So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?

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Aryjna
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Aryjna » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:15 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm
So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?
I am interested to hear the opinions of specific teachers on the subject. As it is now, I think donating is a good idea.

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:18 pm

I've just contacted Norbu Rinpoche to get his guidance on this. If it seems appropriate to share his answer, I'll let you all know his position.

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Aryjna
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Aryjna » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:21 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:18 pm
I've just contacted Norbu Rinpoche to get his guidance on this. If it seems appropriate to share his answer, I'll let you all know his position.
That's a good idea, I'd like to know the answer too.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:29 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:47 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:33 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:37 pm
I do remember discussing it with a Lama but not which one.
In essence I think he said that the merit of donating the organs outweighed any disturbance to the consciousness.
I assume he meant that the consciousness would carry the vipaka of that act, in which the deceased would have agreed to be a donor.
Feeding yourself to a starving lion would count as a donation of organs, but personally I'd rather wait until death for that one.
We can't tolerate a headache in contemplation ¿how could could we tolerate such strong sensation, such pain? We need some stability to do so. I found it's even more difficult for people who do not prepare for dying.

This moment of death is the real hope of we dzogchen practitioners. It is in deed very interesting!
The question is regarding someone who is brain dead, not about butchering someone who is alive and kicking.
Got it. But i was pointing to donating organs while conciousness has not left the body. According to the bardo thodol there is a process involved, not that simple as a doctor say "is dead" and give his signature in a record. For that i was asking if there is a 3 days gap for the process to take part, because i not sure how much time it takes. In the meantime there is no guaranty for us to contemplate or to faint (fall unconcious), so is possible to actually feel each element dissolution and i really think it wont be nice if, for example, someone take our heart too soon. :/
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Simon E.
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Simon E. » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm
So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?
Not an option for me as I have had cancer. In the UK (and possibly elsewhere) that makes organ or blood donation a no-no.

Although I appear to be free of it, medically speaking you are always in remission from cancer. Not cured.

Otherwise, I might well have.
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Aryjna » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:40 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:29 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:47 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:33 pm


We can't tolerate a headache in contemplation ¿how could could we tolerate such strong sensation, such pain? We need some stability to do so. I found it's even more difficult for people who do not prepare for dying.

This moment of death is the real hope of we dzogchen practitioners. It is in deed very interesting!
The question is regarding someone who is brain dead, not about butchering someone who is alive and kicking.
Got it. But i was pointing to donating organs while conciousness has not left the body. According to the bardo thodol there is a process involved, not that simple as a doctor say "is dead" and give his signature in a record. For that i was asking if there is a 3 days gap for the process to take part, because i not sure how much time it takes. In the meantime there is no guaranty for us to contemplate or to faint (fall unconcious), so is possible to actually feel each element dissolution and i really think it wont be nice if, for example, someone take our heart too soon. :/
Yes, that may be true, but I think we should hear from some authoritative source on this matter.

In any case, certain parts of the bardo are supposed to be confusing and scary, you need to be able to recognize no matter such disturbances. If you are able to recognize at the right time, what does it matter if your organs are removed? Or, if you are an advanced practitioner and you die in a car crash, does that mean that you will not be able to recognize? If you slip and fall down the stairs, or have a heart attack, does that mean you won't be able to recognize? That is even more traumatic because you are actually conscious when it is happening. Many people die violently or in pain, I think it is a bit weird if the ability to recognize in the bardo depends on dying peacefully.

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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Mantrik » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:50 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:32 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm
So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?
Not an option for me as I have had cancer. In the UK (and possibly elsewhere) that makes organ or blood donation a no-no.

Although I appear to be free of it, medically speaking you are always in remission from cancer. Not cured.

Otherwise, I might well have.
I wasn't aware of that. That rules out both myself and my wife. I haven't given blood since they said jaundice ruled you out, which I think has now changed, but after tropical illnesses like Dengue, I assumed they wouldn't want it anyway.

I guess we have to consider that each serious illness allows us to 'donate' some training to the medical profession. Not dying is a nice bonus, of course!
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Simon E.
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Simon E. » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:58 pm

Dont assume it would be the same for you..I suspect you would get the same answer, but check it out.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:40 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:29 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:47 pm


The question is regarding someone who is brain dead, not about butchering someone who is alive and kicking.
Got it. But i was pointing to donating organs while conciousness has not left the body. According to the bardo thodol there is a process involved, not that simple as a doctor say "is dead" and give his signature in a record. For that i was asking if there is a 3 days gap for the process to take part, because i not sure how much time it takes. In the meantime there is no guaranty for us to contemplate or to faint (fall unconcious), so is possible to actually feel each element dissolution and i really think it wont be nice if, for example, someone take our heart too soon. :/
Yes, that may be true, but I think we should hear from some authoritative source on this matter.

In any case, certain parts of the bardo are supposed to be confusing and scary, you need to be able to recognize no matter such disturbances. If you are able to recognize at the right time, what does it matter if your organs are removed? Or, if you are an advanced practitioner and you die in a car crash, does that mean that you will not be able to recognize? If you slip and fall down the stairs, or have a heart attack, does that mean you won't be able to recognize? That is even more traumatic because you are actually conscious when it is happening. Many people die violently or in pain, I think it is a bit weird if the ability to recognize in the bardo depends on dying peacefully.
Again, my point is that if we can't even go to sleep and recognize, then at death the chance should be more like turn to panic..

But yes, an authority might be better to clear this, i'm also very interested to know :)!
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Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 am

Simon E. wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:32 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm
So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?
Not an option for me as I have had cancer. In the UK (and possibly elsewhere) that makes organ or blood donation a no-no.

Although I appear to be free of it, medically speaking you are always in remission from cancer. Not cured.

Otherwise, I might well have.
So glad to hear you and your wife are in remission! And, Mantrik, sounds like you and your wife are as well? If I understood you right, then congrats to you two also!

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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Ayu » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:37 am

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:37 pm
I do remember discussing it with a Lama but not which one.
In essence I think he said that the merit of donating the organs outweighed any disturbance to the consciousness.
...
My teacher said something similar - donating organs is a wholesome deed. It would be good to do it wholeheartedly for the well-being of others. If one is able to do that without worrying too much this is the best case.

But a friend of mine is nurse in the department for transplantation in our hospital. She says, the organs should not be too old. So, when you've reached an age older than 58 or so, you don't have to worry about that topic at all anymore. Nobody wants to have the organs of an old person.
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Simon E.
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Simon E. » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:22 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 am
Simon E. wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:32 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm
So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?
Not an option for me as I have had cancer. In the UK (and possibly elsewhere) that makes organ or blood donation a no-no.

Although I appear to be free of it, medically speaking you are always in remission from cancer. Not cured.

Otherwise, I might well have.
So glad to hear you and your wife are in remission! And, Mantrik, sounds like you and your wife are as well? If I understood you right, then congrats to you two also!
Thanks for the good wishes...but my wife is not affected by the issue. :namaste:
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Simon E. » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:35 am

Ayu wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:37 am
Mantrik wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:37 pm
I do remember discussing it with a Lama but not which one.
In essence I think he said that the merit of donating the organs outweighed any disturbance to the consciousness.
...
My teacher said something similar - donating organs is a wholesome deed. It would be good to do it wholeheartedly for the well-being of others. If one is able to do that without worrying too much this is the best case.

But a friend of mine is nurse in the department for transplantation in our hospital. She says, the organs should not be too old. So, when you've reached an age older than 58 or so, you don't have to worry about that topic at all anymore. Nobody wants to have the organs of an old person.
Not so in the UK. Healthy organs from those who have never had certain named illnesses are used up to 75 years. The heart/lung system of a 70-year-old who has exercised and never smoked may well be healthier than that of a 40-year-old smoker.
Although there is a cut off age for some bodily tissues and for corneas at 60 years.
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philji
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by philji » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:26 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8226709.stm
I too wondered if there was an age limit.

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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Simon E. » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:35 pm

Ageing in not a uniform process throughout the body. But the body has a series of interdependent systems.
So if a 70 year old heart that is otherwise healthy is put into the body of a 30 year old it starts to regenerate as it links to the bodily systems of that 30 year old.

Amazing ain't it? :smile:
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Grigoris » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:59 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:03 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:47 pm
My current personal experience has verified for me that brain death=bodily death.
Man, so sorry for your loss, and I hope your brother has a fortunate rebirth.

When I have lost close family members I have felt that too, but after Phowa it was different again, a feeling of final 'departure' hard to explain.
I know what you mean. I said bodily death purposefully. Human existence is characterised by name AND form.
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Grigoris » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:04 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm
So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?
Definitely. I talked to a gentleman in the Intensive care waiting room who was there because his 21 year old son had just received a life saving liver transplant.

We wanted to donate my brother's organs but he had been on life support with really low blood pressure for too long.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Simon E.
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Simon E. » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:47 pm
My current personal experience has verified for me that brain death=bodily death.
May he and all the family know great peace... :namaste:
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by weitsicht » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:31 pm

My teacher was responding to a friend of mine concerning this. I didn't see the answer and the answer was long but it ended with the invitation to work with circumstances.
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm
So how many of you are planning to donate your organs when you die?
I have a documentation concerning this in my purse.
My heart excluded though because it has a twisted position.

I don't donate blood. But AB isn't too sexy anyways. Happy that my brother donates a lot. He has 0
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