Donating one's organs at death

Simon E.
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Simon E. » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:38 pm

Mine is O Rh. Neg. Which made me very popular with the blood transfusion service when I could still donate.
For the benefit of Americans, the only thing that UK donors receive in exchange for donating blood is a cup of tea and one biscuit!
On the other hand, if they need a blood transfusion they pay nothing.
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:59 pm

Don't forget that you can also join the registry to donate bone marrow and peripheral blood cells while still alive. I made a thread with links a while back.

Also, the concerns about donating organs at death exist in Chinese Pure Land as well. The thinking is the mind-stream can take up to 8 hours to leave the body, even after brain death, and that physical sensations are more painful due to the immobility of the body. That can obviously cause a disturbance for the recently deceased.

I'm not sure what I personally make of this, but I thought I'd share :shrug:
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Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:01 am

So, I heard back from ChNN Rinpoche about donating my organs at death. I told him, "Giving away my organs to those in need when I die is something I'm strongly attracted to, but since death is an important opportunity for a Dzogchen practitioner, would this disturbance of the body be a mistake?" He responded, "I think there is no problem with this. Ciao ciao!"

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Aryjna
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Aryjna » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:08 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:01 am
So, I heard back from ChNN Rinpoche about donating my organs at death. I told him, "Giving away my organs to those in need when I die is something I'm strongly attracted to, but since death is an important opportunity for a Dzogchen practitioner, would this disturbance of the body be a mistake?" He responded, "I think there is no problem with this. Ciao ciao!"
:D Thanks

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:12 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:08 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:01 am
So, I heard back from ChNN Rinpoche about donating my organs at death. I told him, "Giving away my organs to those in need when I die is something I'm strongly attracted to, but since death is an important opportunity for a Dzogchen practitioner, would this disturbance of the body be a mistake?" He responded, "I think there is no problem with this. Ciao ciao!"
:D Thanks

Nice 👍. About people who is not practitioner, he said nothing?
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:36 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:12 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:08 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:01 am
So, I heard back from ChNN Rinpoche about donating my organs at death. I told him, "Giving away my organs to those in need when I die is something I'm strongly attracted to, but since death is an important opportunity for a Dzogchen practitioner, would this disturbance of the body be a mistake?" He responded, "I think there is no problem with this. Ciao ciao!"
:D Thanks

Nice 👍. About people who is not practitioner, he said nothing?
I didn’t ask regarding non-practitioners, so no, he didn’t say anything about them.

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Quay
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Quay » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:49 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:01 am
So, I heard back from ChNN Rinpoche about donating my organs at death. I told him, "Giving away my organs to those in need when I die is something I'm strongly attracted to, but since death is an important opportunity for a Dzogchen practitioner, would this disturbance of the body be a mistake?" He responded, "I think there is no problem with this. Ciao ciao!"
Yes, thank you for asking and posting here. Much appreciated.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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Grigoris
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Grigoris » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:55 am

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:59 pm
Don't forget that you can also join the registry to donate bone marrow and peripheral blood cells while still alive. I made a thread with links a while back.

Also, the concerns about donating organs at death exist in Chinese Pure Land as well. The thinking is the mind-stream can take up to 8 hours to leave the body, even after brain death, and that physical sensations are more painful due to the immobility of the body. That can obviously cause a disturbance for the recently deceased.

I'm not sure what I personally make of this, but I thought I'd share :shrug:
Marrow donation is a weird one as it requires a very close genotype match. One goes on a register and awaits being called to donate. You can be on it for decades without a match being found.
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KoolAid900
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by KoolAid900 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:03 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:40 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:29 pm


Got it. But i was pointing to donating organs while conciousness has not left the body. According to the bardo thodol there is a process involved, not that simple as a doctor say "is dead" and give his signature in a record. For that i was asking if there is a 3 days gap for the process to take part, because i not sure how much time it takes. In the meantime there is no guaranty for us to contemplate or to faint (fall unconcious), so is possible to actually feel each element dissolution and i really think it wont be nice if, for example, someone take our heart too soon. :/
Yes, that may be true, but I think we should hear from some authoritative source on this matter.

In any case, certain parts of the bardo are supposed to be confusing and scary, you need to be able to recognize no matter such disturbances. If you are able to recognize at the right time, what does it matter if your organs are removed? Or, if you are an advanced practitioner and you die in a car crash, does that mean that you will not be able to recognize? If you slip and fall down the stairs, or have a heart attack, does that mean you won't be able to recognize? That is even more traumatic because you are actually conscious when it is happening. Many people die violently or in pain, I think it is a bit weird if the ability to recognize in the bardo depends on dying peacefully.
Again, my point is that if we can't even go to sleep and recognize, then at death the chance should be more like turn to panic..

But yes, an authority might be better to clear this, i'm also very interested to know :)!
Something Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche told me from what he has seen... if a person is a practitioner when they die then things become auspicious and even if they have a lot of suffering, illness, pain, and mental disturbance beforehand, when the time of death actually comes their mind relaxes and they are able to transition well. Whereas for people who don't practice, even if the outer conditions are good and the Lama is there they have no peace. He said even if he put them in meditation posture they can't stay like that.

I didn't get the impression that when he said practitioner he meant like someone with realization. So it seems like it's an important karmic time and maybe an opportunity for deeper karmic patterns to manifest. For myself, I always assumed panic would be more likely, but now I am considering this possibility.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:50 am

KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:03 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:40 pm


Yes, that may be true, but I think we should hear from some authoritative source on this matter.

In any case, certain parts of the bardo are supposed to be confusing and scary, you need to be able to recognize no matter such disturbances. If you are able to recognize at the right time, what does it matter if your organs are removed? Or, if you are an advanced practitioner and you die in a car crash, does that mean that you will not be able to recognize? If you slip and fall down the stairs, or have a heart attack, does that mean you won't be able to recognize? That is even more traumatic because you are actually conscious when it is happening. Many people die violently or in pain, I think it is a bit weird if the ability to recognize in the bardo depends on dying peacefully.
Again, my point is that if we can't even go to sleep and recognize, then at death the chance should be more like turn to panic..

But yes, an authority might be better to clear this, i'm also very interested to know :)!
Something Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche told me from what he has seen... if a person is a practitioner when they die then things become auspicious and even if they have a lot of suffering, illness, pain, and mental disturbance beforehand, when the time of death actually comes their mind relaxes and they are able to transition well. Whereas for people who don't practice, even if the outer conditions are good and the Lama is there they have no peace. He said even if he put them in meditation posture they can't stay like that.

I didn't get the impression that when he said practitioner he meant like someone with realization. So it seems like it's an important karmic time and maybe an opportunity for deeper karmic patterns to manifest. For myself, I always assumed panic would be more likely, but now I am considering this possibility.
i see. i don't know if in vajrayana, in general, death is treated in the same way as in atiyoga, do you know if so?
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amanitamusc
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:50 am

KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:03 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:40 pm


Yes, that may be true, but I think we should hear from some authoritative source on this matter.

In any case, certain parts of the bardo are supposed to be confusing and scary, you need to be able to recognize no matter such disturbances. If you are able to recognize at the right time, what does it matter if your organs are removed? Or, if you are an advanced practitioner and you die in a car crash, does that mean that you will not be able to recognize? If you slip and fall down the stairs, or have a heart attack, does that mean you won't be able to recognize? That is even more traumatic because you are actually conscious when it is happening. Many people die violently or in pain, I think it is a bit weird if the ability to recognize in the bardo depends on dying peacefully.
Again, my point is that if we can't even go to sleep and recognize, then at death the chance should be more like turn to panic..

But yes, an authority might be better to clear this, i'm also very interested to know :)!
Something Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche told me from what he has seen... if a person is a practitioner when they die then things become auspicious and even if they have a lot of suffering, illness, pain, and mental disturbance beforehand, when the time of death actually comes their mind relaxes and they are able to transition well. Whereas for people who don't practice, even if the outer conditions are good and the Lama is there they have no peace. He said even if he put them in meditation posture they can't stay like that.

I didn't get the impression that when he said practitioner he meant like someone with realization. So it seems like it's an important karmic time and maybe an opportunity for deeper karmic patterns to manifest. For myself, I always assumed panic would be more likely, but now I am considering this possibility.
Yea once you get done suffering all corpses look peaceful.

KoolAid900
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by KoolAid900 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:45 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:50 am
KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:03 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm


Again, my point is that if we can't even go to sleep and recognize, then at death the chance should be more like turn to panic..

But yes, an authority might be better to clear this, i'm also very interested to know :)!
Something Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche told me from what he has seen... if a person is a practitioner when they die then things become auspicious and even if they have a lot of suffering, illness, pain, and mental disturbance beforehand, when the time of death actually comes their mind relaxes and they are able to transition well. Whereas for people who don't practice, even if the outer conditions are good and the Lama is there they have no peace. He said even if he put them in meditation posture they can't stay like that.

I didn't get the impression that when he said practitioner he meant like someone with realization. So it seems like it's an important karmic time and maybe an opportunity for deeper karmic patterns to manifest. For myself, I always assumed panic would be more likely, but now I am considering this possibility.
i see. i don't know if in vajrayana, in general, death is treated in the same way as in atiyoga, do you know if so?
I would think death is considered very similarly in both Sarma and Nyingma. They are both Vajrayana and are more similar than different.

I remember Gyalpo Rinpoche saying that sometimes people like to say of Mahamudra and Dozgchen that one is higher than the other (he may have been referring to Dogchen but I'm not sure), but that it depends more on the person than the system. He made an analogy with piloting an aircraft. If there are two sophisticated airplanes and one is a little bit more technologically advanced than the other, it doesn't mean it flies better. How well the plane flies depends more on the pilot than the sophistication of the plane.

KoolAid900
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by KoolAid900 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:51 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:50 am
KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:03 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm


Again, my point is that if we can't even go to sleep and recognize, then at death the chance should be more like turn to panic..

But yes, an authority might be better to clear this, i'm also very interested to know :)!
Something Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche told me from what he has seen... if a person is a practitioner when they die then things become auspicious and even if they have a lot of suffering, illness, pain, and mental disturbance beforehand, when the time of death actually comes their mind relaxes and they are able to transition well. Whereas for people who don't practice, even if the outer conditions are good and the Lama is there they have no peace. He said even if he put them in meditation posture they can't stay like that.

I didn't get the impression that when he said practitioner he meant like someone with realization. So it seems like it's an important karmic time and maybe an opportunity for deeper karmic patterns to manifest. For myself, I always assumed panic would be more likely, but now I am considering this possibility.
Yea once you get done suffering all corpses look peaceful.
Lol, OK.

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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:07 pm

KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:45 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:50 am
KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:03 am


Something Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche told me from what he has seen... if a person is a practitioner when they die then things become auspicious and even if they have a lot of suffering, illness, pain, and mental disturbance beforehand, when the time of death actually comes their mind relaxes and they are able to transition well. Whereas for people who don't practice, even if the outer conditions are good and the Lama is there they have no peace. He said even if he put them in meditation posture they can't stay like that.

I didn't get the impression that when he said practitioner he meant like someone with realization. So it seems like it's an important karmic time and maybe an opportunity for deeper karmic patterns to manifest. For myself, I always assumed panic would be more likely, but now I am considering this possibility.
i see. i don't know if in vajrayana, in general, death is treated in the same way as in atiyoga, do you know if so?
I would think death is considered very similarly in both Sarma and Nyingma. They are both Vajrayana and are more similar than different.

I remember Gyalpo Rinpoche saying that sometimes people like to say of Mahamudra and Dozgchen that one is higher than the other (he may have been referring to Dogchen but I'm not sure), but that it depends more on the person than the system. He made an analogy with piloting an aircraft. If there are two sophisticated airplanes and one is a little bit more technologically advanced than the other, it doesn't mean it flies better. How well the plane flies depends more on the pilot than the sophistication of the plane.
i was refering if death was treated different, let's say, in kriya and in ati yoga for example. i agree, depends more on the person, but i want to know if the teachings on how face death are also different in those systems.

sorry my english is not the best :(
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KoolAid900
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by KoolAid900 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:43 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:07 pm
KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:45 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:50 am


i see. i don't know if in vajrayana, in general, death is treated in the same way as in atiyoga, do you know if so?
I would think death is considered very similarly in both Sarma and Nyingma. They are both Vajrayana and are more similar than different.

I remember Gyalpo Rinpoche saying that sometimes people like to say of Mahamudra and Dozgchen that one is higher than the other (he may have been referring to Dogchen but I'm not sure), but that it depends more on the person than the system. He made an analogy with piloting an aircraft. If there are two sophisticated airplanes and one is a little bit more technologically advanced than the other, it doesn't mean it flies better. How well the plane flies depends more on the pilot than the sophistication of the plane.
i was refering if death was treated different, let's say, in kriya and in ati yoga for example. i agree, depends more on the person, but i want to know if the teachings on how face death are also different in those systems.

sorry my english is not the best :(
Maybe there are technical differences, not sure.

Are you asking in terms of describing the process of death, the preparation for death, or the practice to do at the time of death?

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:29 pm

KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:43 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:07 pm
KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:45 pm


I would think death is considered very similarly in both Sarma and Nyingma. They are both Vajrayana and are more similar than different.

I remember Gyalpo Rinpoche saying that sometimes people like to say of Mahamudra and Dozgchen that one is higher than the other (he may have been referring to Dogchen but I'm not sure), but that it depends more on the person than the system. He made an analogy with piloting an aircraft. If there are two sophisticated airplanes and one is a little bit more technologically advanced than the other, it doesn't mean it flies better. How well the plane flies depends more on the pilot than the sophistication of the plane.
i was refering if death was treated different, let's say, in kriya and in ati yoga for example. i agree, depends more on the person, but i want to know if the teachings on how face death are also different in those systems.

sorry my english is not the best :(
Maybe there are technical differences, not sure.

Are you asking in terms of describing the process of death, the preparation for death, or the practice to do at the time of death?
in terms of preparation for death and the practice to do at the time of death
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KoolAid900
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by KoolAid900 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:20 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:29 pm
KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:43 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:07 pm


i was refering if death was treated different, let's say, in kriya and in ati yoga for example. i agree, depends more on the person, but i want to know if the teachings on how face death are also different in those systems.

sorry my english is not the best :(
Maybe there are technical differences, not sure.

Are you asking in terms of describing the process of death, the preparation for death, or the practice to do at the time of death?
in terms of preparation for death and the practice to do at the time of death
Seems like every Dharma practice helps us generally to prepare for death. Specifically, I know Mahamudra has practices involving bringing all the winds into the central channel and merging some of the drops in order to simulate the experience of dying as a way to recognize primordial wisdom and prepare for death. This actually causes the inner experience of stages of dissolution to arise (as they do during death). I dont know if there is something like this in Dzogchen.

Of course there is also Phowa, which we usually talk of as ejecting the consciousness, but I've heard it taught that if you are familiar with the nature of mind that is the best way to practice Phowa, and several other levels descending from there (secret, inner) with the actual ejection of consciousness being the outer (lowest level) or sort of last resort. If I recall correctly.

One of the things I love about Vajrayana is the interconnectedness of all the practices with life, death birth, bardo etc. Of course the 6 yogas of Naropa deal with different aspects of mind and also experiences in the dying, death, bardo, rebirth phases. Creation and completion stages also mimic these processes and help us purify our deluded patterns related to them. Also the body, speech, mind, and word empowerments can be correlated with the dissolutions at death I think (I know they correlate with different levels of mind, so it seems reasonable they would correlate with dying as the course levels of mind dissolve into the more subtle).

I always kind of thought that we just do as much of these practices as we can and then we practice on whatever level we can when we are dying according to where we are. Actually, this makes me wonder if I should know something more specific about what to do when I die.

It's really amazing, no matter how much I seem to think about dying and preparing for it's inevitability, I keep finding that another line of thought that seems to behave as if I am going to live forever.

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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:24 am

KoolAid900 wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:20 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:29 pm
KoolAid900 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:43 pm


Maybe there are technical differences, not sure.

Are you asking in terms of describing the process of death, the preparation for death, or the practice to do at the time of death?
in terms of preparation for death and the practice to do at the time of death
Seems like every Dharma practice helps us generally to prepare for death. Specifically, I know Mahamudra has practices involving bringing all the winds into the central channel and merging some of the drops in order to simulate the experience of dying as a way to recognize primordial wisdom and prepare for death. This actually causes the inner experience of stages of dissolution to arise (as they do during death). I dont know if there is something like this in Dzogchen.

Of course there is also Phowa, which we usually talk of as ejecting the consciousness, but I've heard it taught that if you are familiar with the nature of mind that is the best way to practice Phowa, and several other levels descending from there (secret, inner) with the actual ejection of consciousness being the outer (lowest level) or sort of last resort. If I recall correctly.

One of the things I love about Vajrayana is the interconnectedness of all the practices with life, death birth, bardo etc. Of course the 6 yogas of Naropa deal with different aspects of mind and also experiences in the dying, death, bardo, rebirth phases. Creation and completion stages also mimic these processes and help us purify our deluded patterns related to them. Also the body, speech, mind, and word empowerments can be correlated with the dissolutions at death I think (I know they correlate with different levels of mind, so it seems reasonable they would correlate with dying as the course levels of mind dissolve into the more subtle).

I always kind of thought that we just do as much of these practices as we can and then we practice on whatever level we can when we are dying according to where we are. Actually, this makes me wonder if I should know something more specific about what to do when I die.

It's really amazing, no matter how much I seem to think about dying and preparing for it's inevitability, I keep finding that another line of thought that seems to behave as if I am going to live forever.
interesting, i believe i got more or less the same impression, by practicing we are just preparing to die

yeah,most of distraction has to do with not being aware of death.

thanks! this is fun
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KoolAid900
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by KoolAid900 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:29 am

interesting, i believe i got more or less the same impression, by practicing we are just preparing to die

yeah,most of distraction has to do with not being aware of death.

thanks! this is fun
[/quote]


Yes, I enjoyed it as well. Thanks 😀

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Ogyen
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Re: Donating one's organs at death

Post by Ogyen » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:59 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:01 am
So, I heard back from ChNN Rinpoche about donating my organs at death. I told him, "Giving away my organs to those in need when I die is something I'm strongly attracted to, but since death is an important opportunity for a Dzogchen practitioner, would this disturbance of the body be a mistake?" He responded, "I think there is no problem with this. Ciao ciao!"
Pema, I heard that even if you donate your organs they're not always usable based on the life you led... Like if someone was a drinker or has a lot of tattoos, o had drug use or chronic illness and lots of medications... Do you know if that's that true? Or just hearsay?? Figured you might know...
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