Vasectomy

Pema Rigdzin
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Vasectomy

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:15 pm

Recently my wife floated the idea of me getting a vasectomy once we've either had our second and last child, or once we've decided we're gonna be one and done. She wasn't insistent, so that's not an issue, and I can't help but sympathize with her position of all other methods of birth control being basically all on her. But my concern is whether a surgery like this would be damaging to practice of Secret Mantra in general, and Dzogchen in particular. What say you, Malcolm, and others? Anyone spoke to their lama about this? I know my wife would take yet another one for the team if I told her it would be harmful to my practice. But would it?

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Malcolm
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:27 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:15 pm
Recently my wife floated the idea of me getting a vasectomy once we've either had our second and last child, or once we've decided we're gonna be one and done. She wasn't insistent, so that's not an issue, and I can't help but sympathize with her position of all other methods of birth control being basically all on her. But my concern is whether a surgery like this would be damaging to practice of Secret Mantra in general, and Dzogchen in particular. What say you, Malcolm, and others? Anyone spoke to their lama about this? I know my wife would take yet another one for the team if I told her it would be harmful to my practice. But would it?
Go for it.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Pema Rigdzin
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Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Vasectomy

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:33 pm

It would have no unavoidable, permanent detrimental effect on my practice?

narhwal90
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by narhwal90 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:38 am

I cannot speak to the practice angle, but from a birth control standpoint, in the US at least, the failure statistics for vasectomy are poorly founded; incidence of failure of the procedure ie resumption of male fertility is likely much higher than the figures cited. Some of the reasons for that are the failure can easily occur a year or two out & typically there is only one fertility test a few months after the procedure, there is no consistent method of reporting and accounting for failure, there is no product to test eg condoms, and the studies on which the figures are founded are quite obscure and quite old at this point.

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Malcolm
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Malcolm » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:33 pm
It would have no unavoidable, permanent detrimental effect on my practice?
Nope. You are too old for sbyor lam anyway, right?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Pema Rigdzin
Posts: 1112
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Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Vasectomy

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:08 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:33 pm
It would have no unavoidable, permanent detrimental effect on my practice?
Nope. You are too old for sbyor lam anyway, right?
sbyor lam is consort practice? I'm only nearing 42, so don't think I'm too old for much, but I'm afraid my wife would not be qualified for it, so not in the plans. Would the procedure affect practices like tummo, done as secondary practices for a Dzogchen practitioner?

Soma999
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Soma999 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:28 pm

Maybe you can ask also what do qi gong masters say about it concerning the flow of qi and those who practice kundalini meditation.

I had a look and it *seems* energy flow well considering different testimonies.

One point which may be interesting is also the risk vasectmy can have on health, for exemple :
http://www.healthy.net/health/article/v ... ancer/3365

Even if this risk seems low, having all kind of information, pleasant and unpleasant are useful.

I don’t have knowledge of this specific question, but generally doing something « unnatural » may generate perturbation, even if they are minor. Nature is is harmony. Altering the way it works may impact something else.

Don’t take just one point of view.

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Mantrik
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Mantrik » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:45 pm

I've not had one but I think sex still works, including ejaculation of fluids. The only absentee is the sperm which is no longer in those fluids. So I wonder if that does invalidate consort practice?
http://www.khyung.com

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Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Malcolm
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Malcolm » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:59 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:08 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:33 pm
It would have no unavoidable, permanent detrimental effect on my practice?
Nope. You are too old for sbyor lam anyway, right?
sbyor lam is consort practice? I'm only nearing 42, so don't think I'm too old for much, but I'm afraid my wife would not be qualified for it, so not in the plans. Would the procedure affect practices like tummo, done as secondary practices for a Dzogchen practitioner?
Yeah, you are too old. 26 is the cutoff point.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Malcolm » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:00 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:08 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:33 pm
It would have no unavoidable, permanent detrimental effect on my practice?
Nope. You are too old for sbyor lam anyway, right?
sbyor lam is consort practice? I'm only nearing 42, so don't think I'm too old for much, but I'm afraid my wife would not be qualified for it, so not in the plans. Would the procedure affect practices like tummo, done as secondary practices for a Dzogchen practitioner?

Not at all.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Pema Rigdzin
Posts: 1112
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Vasectomy

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:02 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:00 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:08 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am
Nope. You are too old for sbyor lam anyway, right?
sbyor lam is consort practice? I'm only nearing 42, so don't think I'm too old for much, but I'm afraid my wife would not be qualified for it, so not in the plans. Would the procedure affect practices like tummo, done as secondary practices for a Dzogchen practitioner?

Not at all.
Cool, thanks for the input! As an aside, what's the reasoning for such a young age cut-off for consort practice?

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Malcolm
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Malcolm » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:03 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:02 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:00 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:08 am

sbyor lam is consort practice? I'm only nearing 42, so don't think I'm too old for much, but I'm afraid my wife would not be qualified for it, so not in the plans. Would the procedure affect practices like tummo, done as secondary practices for a Dzogchen practitioner?

Not at all.
Cool, thanks for the input! As an aside, what's the reasoning for such a young age cut-off for consort practice?
After 26, your nadis start degenerating, 220 a week or so.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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conebeckham
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by conebeckham » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:00 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:03 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:02 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:00 pm



Not at all.
Cool, thanks for the input! As an aside, what's the reasoning for such a young age cut-off for consort practice?
After 26, your nadis start degenerating, 220 a week or so.
Yes, and then eventually you have a Blood clot in your leg and can't even sit cross-legged anymore for any length of time.
(Oops. TMI???) :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Pema Rigdzin
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Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Vasectomy

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:39 am

conebeckham wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:00 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:03 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:02 pm
Cool, thanks for the input! As an aside, what's the reasoning for such a young age cut-off for consort practice?
After 26, your nadis start degenerating, 220 a week or so.
Yes, and then eventually you have a Blood clot in your leg and can't even sit cross-legged anymore for any length of time.
(Oops. TMI???) :smile:
Oh sheesh, you developed a DVT, Cone? Being an RN, I’ve occasionally had the passing worry about that as it’s always a concern with my particular patient population.

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conebeckham
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by conebeckham » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:33 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:39 am
conebeckham wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:00 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:03 pm


After 26, your nadis start degenerating, 220 a week or so.
Yes, and then eventually you have a Blood clot in your leg and can't even sit cross-legged anymore for any length of time.
(Oops. TMI???) :smile:
Oh sheesh, you developed a DVT, Cone? Being an RN, I’ve occasionally had the passing worry about that as it’s always a concern with my particular patient population.
"Ask your Doctor if Eliquis is right for you!"
:rolling:
It's right for me. Beats Cumadin, by all accounts, anyway. No regular testing, no real diet restrictions......could be worse. A reminder of my mortality, for sure. It's genetic/hereditary, I am fairly certain......Dad was taken out by a massive pulmonary embolism at age 65.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Pema Rigdzin
Posts: 1112
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Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Vasectomy

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:49 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:33 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:39 am
conebeckham wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:00 pm

Yes, and then eventually you have a Blood clot in your leg and can't even sit cross-legged anymore for any length of time.
(Oops. TMI???) :smile:
Oh sheesh, you developed a DVT, Cone? Being an RN, I’ve occasionally had the passing worry about that as it’s always a concern with my particular patient population.
"Ask your Doctor if Eliquis is right for you!"
:rolling:
It's right for me. Beats Cumadin, by all accounts, anyway. No regular testing, no real diet restrictions......could be worse. A reminder of my mortality, for sure. It's genetic/hereditary, I am fairly certain......Dad was taken out by a massive pulmonary embolism at age 65.
Dang, I'm really sorry to hear that! But glad you caught it in time! And yeah, definitely beats having to get you INR checked all the time! Is it thought that it happened because of sitting for practice?

⊙ Fimbul ⊙
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by ⊙ Fimbul ⊙ » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:58 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:59 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:08 am
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am


Nope. You are too old for sbyor lam anyway, right?
sbyor lam is consort practice? I'm only nearing 42, so don't think I'm too old for much, but I'm afraid my wife would not be qualified for it, so not in the plans. Would the procedure affect practices like tummo, done as secondary practices for a Dzogchen practitioner?
Yeah, you are too old. 26 is the cutoff point.
Really? I have never hear that before, it seems like unless one is practicing from a very young age almost everyone would miss this cutoff. I was always under the impression that a consort was necessary at certain points in completion stage practice, does this mean very few people would ever have the opportunity to complete the path in this way?

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:12 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:15 pm
Recently my wife floated the idea of me getting a vasectomy once we've either had our second and last child, or once we've decided we're gonna be one and done. She wasn't insistent, so that's not an issue, and I can't help but sympathize with her position of all other methods of birth control being basically all on her. But my concern is whether a surgery like this would be damaging to practice of Secret Mantra in general, and Dzogchen in particular. What say you, Malcolm, and others? Anyone spoke to their lama about this? I know my wife would take yet another one for the team if I told her it would be harmful to my practice. But would it?
Not only is the advice that it's fine to get Vasectomy grossly inaccurate, it's also incredibly harmful.

Someone who has faith in the teachings of the Secret mantra, Should never even dream of getting a Vasectomy.

I was present once when one of the Nyingma lineage heads was talking about various karma's of sexual actions according to the view of the Mantrayana, when it came to the topic of Vasectomy, He said "You don't even want to think about the karma of a Vasectomy" He said that across the board, not only for individuals who are into the yogas.

A wise man once said, "Partial knowledge is very dangerous" I don't know why it's so hard to say "I don't know" Or to ask a Rinpoche first specifically about the subject at hand. However to present as a matter of fact, something which will greatly harm someone, is irresponsible, and upsets me. Although i'm sure the motivation is definitely not negative.

The lama in question is Fully trained in medicine, and a master of the Anu yoga teachings, and definitely, a Dzogchenpa.

I have sent you a PM.

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Malcolm
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by Malcolm » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:51 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:12 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:15 pm
Recently my wife floated the idea of me getting a vasectomy once we've either had our second and last child, or once we've decided we're gonna be one and done. She wasn't insistent, so that's not an issue, and I can't help but sympathize with her position of all other methods of birth control being basically all on her. But my concern is whether a surgery like this would be damaging to practice of Secret Mantra in general, and Dzogchen in particular. What say you, Malcolm, and others? Anyone spoke to their lama about this? I know my wife would take yet another one for the team if I told her it would be harmful to my practice. But would it?
Not only is the advice that it's fine to get Vasectomy grossly inaccurate, it's also incredibly harmful.
Why? You should present a reason, not merely an assertion. I will be interested to see your reasoning. I expect citations, not merely the opinions of this or that lama.
I was present once when one of the Nyingma lineage heads was talking about various karma's of sexual actions according to the view of the Mantrayana, when it came to the topic of Vasectomy, He said "You don't even want to think about the karma of a Vasectomy" He said that across the board, not only for individuals who are into the yogas.
How can receiving a vasectomy be a negative karma? This is like claiming the use of birth control is negative karma. Such a position does not make any sense at all.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

dharmafootsteps
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Re: Vasectomy

Post by dharmafootsteps » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:16 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am
Nope. You are too old for sbyor lam anyway, right?
Are there various types of consort practice? I know nothing about this area but recently heard a talk about Tare Lhamo and Namtrul Rinpoche, who only met at 42 and 36, and revealed treasures through consort practice. I have no idea how/if that relates to sbyor lam though.

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