Kyab Rig

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Re: Kyab Rig

Post by Norwegian » Fri May 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Marc wrote:So to conclude, it seems to me that, unfortunately, you are mis-interpreting what is probably a very approximate / rough transcription of what Rinpoche really meant.

This is why, on such matters, JLA's approach of going back to canonical tibetan texts is more pertinent and has more authority.
Agreed.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Kyab Rig

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri May 04, 2018 4:25 pm

Agree fully with Marc that there can be translator problems regarding the teachings of Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche.

Lopon La would not make mistakes regarding Dzogchen teachings, but in the beginning a translator would have problems with the right interpretation of the Dzogchen terms.


================

Yetri Thasel 2007 / Namkha Troldzö.
by:
Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche

The 4 points of the Dzogchen Damtsig:

1) Mepa;
2) Chigpu;
3) Chalwa;
4) Lhundrub.


3) Chalwa;

This means pervasive. That means that (the Natural State) encompasses the whole of existence, generally. But that is not enough, it is just a little explanation.


3) Chalwa
One part of (Chalwa) is that the Natural State is pure, and one part is that Nature pervades the whole of phenomenal existence — external, internal, everything is pervaded by the Natural State. But if you understand this to mean that this Nature is only one, without partition, which pervades the whole of existence, then that is breaking your faith of Chalwa.
The characteristics of the Natural State are the same but each individual’s Nature is connected with their own consciousness.


===========================

Natural State (Nature), pervades all existence so also "object" like tables etc.
But it does not mean a table has mind.

So to assume that because the Natural State can pervade everything, then it must be that the pervaded things like tables etc. must have consciousness , that is wrong concluded.
The best meditation is no meditation

Luca Vliolini
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Re: Kyab Rig

Post by Luca Vliolini » Fri May 04, 2018 4:53 pm

Marc wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 3:31 pm


Hi Luca,

My remark about quotes from transcripts & co was a "general" remark.
But, as regard to the specific quote above:
- The english, even if edited, is still a little bit "broken" :tongue:
But I do know that Shenten wants to keep the "oral quality" of the teaching in the transcripts, and therefore does not aim for "Shakespeare" english.
- Even with this remark: The sentence is clear and, of course, trustable. But it is really not saying what you seem to understand out of it. This quote is not saying that tables or pillars "have" a mind & a natural state. Simply that everything is encompassed by the Natural State. This quite different... That all appearances are merely the display of the nature of your mind does not mean that the things appearing have a mind of their own. Affirming this would be a logical mistake...

As regard to JLA: I don't know what Rinpoche did or didn't say to him in private.
I was just saying that he has a good "advantage" in such debates given the fact that his knowledge of Tibetan (classical and colloquial) gives him direct access, which most of us don't have, to both the corpus & lineage holders.

I am really not a "partisan" in this discussion. Just a student of Rinpoche :anjali:

Best regards,
M
But I never said the stone has counsciuoness and also Tenzin Wangyal said that a pillar has a consciouness but if you refer
"All phenomena which exixts-internally externally -are all natural state ,so if everything is natural state then the question arise :Is the pillar the natural state or not?It has to be the natural state because we have already said ,we have made the premise ,that everything is the natural state .But it is not easy for us to accept that a pillar or a table is natural state"
It not mine but It is Lopon Namdak sentence
Indeed
Namkha Truldzo teaching 23 July -11 August 2006 page 39 (this book is edited by Shenten Dargye Ling)
By Lopon Tenzin Namdak
"All phenomena which exixts-internally externally -are all natural state ,so if everything is natural state then the question arise :Is the pillar the natural state or not?It has to be the natural state because we have already said ,we have made the premise ,that everything is the natural state .But it is not easy for us to accept that a pillar or a table is natural state"
Anyway it is not important what I think or not But what is the definition of Kyab Rig Rigpa of Lopon Tenzin Namdak
Namkha Truldzo 2-7 August 2005
second week page 33 (this book is edited by Shenten Dargye Ling)

the definiton Kyab rig by Lopon Tenzin namdak
"1. (All-)Encompassing Awareness means that all the Natural State called Buddha Nature which encompasses all sentient beings and whole of existence; therefore it is called (All-) Encompassing Awareness"
And it is the same of Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

Hi
Luca

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Kyab Rig

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri May 04, 2018 4:54 pm

Cool, well, I got my answer earlier and I am not having this turn into a gossip mill or resurrection of old battles so...
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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