The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rangdrol

Ignorant_Fool
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Ignorant_Fool » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:19 pm

I'm slowly making my way through the first few chapters but the significance of this translation is abundantly clear already.
jnanasutra wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:40 am
A study group on this text would be awesome actually :D
This is a great idea. What would be a good way to start this?
Any chance this would be web-casted / broadcasted in some form? :smile:

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heart
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by heart » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:23 pm

Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:19 pm
I'm slowly making my way through the first few chapters but the significance of this translation is abundantly clear already.
jnanasutra wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:40 am
A study group on this text would be awesome actually :D
This is a great idea. What would be a good way to start this?
Any chance this would be web-casted / broadcasted in some form? :smile:
"And via Zoom videoconference for those who cannot attend in person."

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Ignorant_Fool
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Ignorant_Fool » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:24 pm

heart wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:23 pm
"And via Zoom videoconference for those who cannot attend in person."

/magnus
:oops:
Clearly, I didn't read it thoroughly. My bad.

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Virgo
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Virgo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:15 am

I am glad I made it. I just got back and I have to say that it was, as usual, a highly informative and entertaining talk by Malcolm.

Kevin...

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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Norwegian » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:20 am

Virgo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:15 am
I am glad I made it. I just got back and I have to say that it was, as usual, a highly informative and entertaining talk by Malcolm.

Kevin...
That it was.

Quite wonderful talk!

amanitamusc
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:24 am

I watched on zoom.It was very informative and clearly explained.Nicely done Malcolm!
Many thanks.

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Vasana
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Vasana » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:09 am

I forgot to tune in. Was it recorded via Zoom or elsewhere?
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Jeff H » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:32 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:20 am
Virgo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:15 am
I am glad I made it. I just got back and I have to say that it was, as usual, a highly informative and entertaining talk by Malcolm.

Kevin...
That it was.

Quite wonderful talk!
It was a bit over my head, but many accessible gems shone through. It's a pleasure to listen to you, Malcolm.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Malcolm
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Malcolm » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:09 am
I forgot to tune in. Was it recorded via Zoom or elsewhere?
I am afraid it was not.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Vasana
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Vasana » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:15 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:09 am
I forgot to tune in. Was it recorded via Zoom or elsewhere?
I am afraid it was not.
Oh well. If you happen to speak on this again in the future, hopefully it can be recorded for us :)
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Ignorant_Fool
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Ignorant_Fool » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:35 am

Noob question:

Where can I learn more about this Buddha "Powerful Heroic Youth" (Gzhon nu Dpa' bo stobs ldan) - which I'm guessing is Shyönnu Pawo Tobden, sixth of the 12 founding Dzogchen masters? Are there any literatures that explain more about this Buddha and his nirmanakaya field?

I'm still making my way through the first few chapters - going back and re-reading them over and over. Baby steps, I guess ...

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Malcolm
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Malcolm » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:27 pm

Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:35 am
Noob question:

Where can I learn more about this Buddha "Powerful Heroic Youth" (Gzhon nu Dpa' bo stobs ldan) - which I'm guessing is Shyönnu Pawo Tobden, sixth of the 12 founding Dzogchen masters? Are there any literatures that explain more about this Buddha and his nirmanakaya field?

I'm still making my way through the first few chapters - going back and re-reading them over and over. Baby steps, I guess ...

Nyoshul Khenpo's book on the history of Dzogchen will have some information.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:27 pm
Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:35 am
Noob question:

Where can I learn more about this Buddha "Powerful Heroic Youth" (Gzhon nu Dpa' bo stobs ldan) - which I'm guessing is Shyönnu Pawo Tobden, sixth of the 12 founding Dzogchen masters? Are there any literatures that explain more about this Buddha and his nirmanakaya field?

I'm still making my way through the first few chapters - going back and re-reading them over and over. Baby steps, I guess ...

Nyoshul Khenpo's book on the history of Dzogchen will have some information.
Nyoshul Khenpo's book is amazing! And yes, it has three sentences about Zhonnu Pawo Tobden.

Ignorant_Fool
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Ignorant_Fool » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:19 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:55 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:27 pm

Nyoshul Khenpo's book on the history of Dzogchen will have some information.
Nyoshul Khenpo's book is amazing! And yes, it has three sentences about Zhonnu Pawo Tobden.
The Fearless Lion's Roar?
Last edited by Ignorant_Fool on Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Norwegian
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Norwegian » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:32 pm

Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:19 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:55 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:27 pm

Nyoshul Khenpo's book on the history of Dzogchen will have some information.
Nyoshul Khenpo's book is amazing! And yes, it has three sentences about Zhonnu Pawo Tobden.
The Fearless Lion's Roar?
No.

"A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems: Biographies of Masters of Awareness in the Dzogchen Lineage": http://www.tibetantreasures.com/Padma_P ... _Gems.html

Ignorant_Fool
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by Ignorant_Fool » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:35 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:32 pm
No.

"A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems: Biographies of Masters of Awareness in the Dzogchen Lineage": http://www.tibetantreasures.com/Padma_P ... _Gems.html
Thanks a lot! :thanks:

jnanasutra
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by jnanasutra » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:22 am

If Gzhon nu Dpa’ bo stobs ldan is teaching a retinue (which includes Vajrapani) that is merely an emanation of his own pristine consciousness, then when this buddha sees the appearances of six realms of samsara it must be the case that the beings in each realm must also be emanations of his pristine consciousness. I understand the idea of the Yogācāra container universe model, however, this model works from the perspective of a deluded mind. So how does this buddha view sentient beings? Are sentient beings similar to the retinue in that they are his own emanations? I know the general phrases, “buddhas don’t see sentient beings” and “sentient beings do not exist.” That is not what I am getting at. I am trying to understand this from a Man ngag sde perspective. Any thoughts? Thanks. :smile:

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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by oldbob » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:57 pm

jnanasutra wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:22 am
If Gzhon nu Dpa’ bo stobs ldan is teaching a retinue (which includes Vajrapani) that is merely an emanation of his own pristine consciousness, then when this buddha sees the appearances of six realms of samsara it must be the case that the beings in each realm must also be emanations of his pristine consciousness. I understand the idea of the Yogācāra container universe model, however, this model works from the perspective of a deluded mind. So how does this buddha view sentient beings? Are sentient beings similar to the retinue in that they are his own emanations? I know the general phrases, “buddhas don’t see sentient beings” and “sentient beings do not exist.” That is not what I am getting at. I am trying to understand this from a Man ngag sde perspective. Any thoughts? Thanks. :smile:
While I am certainly not enlightened - just ask my lady friend Suzy - I am content to just be a bozo on the bus. But I've practiced a little and so I'll hazard a guess. (Posting anything these days seems a little hazardous.)

Perhaps the whole issue is a non-starter as in trying to write on water or air. Perhaps these questions do not function, or apply, to an enlightened Buddha.

So - perhaps our time is better spent - even for a moment - in contemplation and practices leading to enlightenment. When your mind wanders into questions like this, and this is a completely normal occurrence, gently bring it back to contemplation and practices leading to enlightenment, and again, and again, etc.

:buddha1:

I am sure that there is great benefit to all who seek to practice Dzogchen in reading the Dzogchen tantras.

https://www.amazon.com/Self-Arisen-Vidy ... 738&sr=1-6

Perhaps this will put to rest all your questions.

:heart:

jnanasutra
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by jnanasutra » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:04 am

oldbob wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:57 pm
jnanasutra wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:22 am
If Gzhon nu Dpa’ bo stobs ldan is teaching a retinue (which includes Vajrapani) that is merely an emanation of his own pristine consciousness, then when this buddha sees the appearances of six realms of samsara it must be the case that the beings in each realm must also be emanations of his pristine consciousness. I understand the idea of the Yogācāra container universe model, however, this model works from the perspective of a deluded mind. So how does this buddha view sentient beings? Are sentient beings similar to the retinue in that they are his own emanations? I know the general phrases, “buddhas don’t see sentient beings” and “sentient beings do not exist.” That is not what I am getting at. I am trying to understand this from a Man ngag sde perspective. Any thoughts? Thanks. :smile:
While I am certainly not enlightened - just ask my lady friend Suzy - I am content to just be a bozo on the bus. But I've practiced a little and so I'll hazard a guess. (Posting anything these days seems a little hazardous.)

Perhaps the whole issue is a non-starter as in trying to write on water or air. Perhaps these questions do not function, or apply, to an enlightened Buddha.

So - perhaps our time is better spent - even for a moment - in contemplation and practices leading to enlightenment. When your mind wanders into questions like this, and this is a completely normal occurrence, gently bring it back to contemplation and practices leading to enlightenment, and again, and again, etc.

:buddha1:

I am sure that there is great benefit to all who seek to practice Dzogchen in reading the Dzogchen tantras.

https://www.amazon.com/Self-Arisen-Vidy ... 738&sr=1-6

Perhaps this will put to rest all your questions.

:heart:
Um...ok. Got it. Thanks.

Sooo, any thoughts from anyone else?

jnanasutra
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Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang

Post by jnanasutra » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:40 am

Just happened to read Chapter 59, “The Deed of Emanation.” It is related to my question, but I’m still unclear as to how the six realms of samsara fit in. :reading:

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