Great Transference question

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Fa Dao » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:47 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:44 am
Is there an explanation of what is great transference?

Afaik is not the same as rainbow-light-body, so it is pointed in a ChNN book because says that an individual that manifests great transferes does not manifest death and an individual that manifests rainbow-light-body does.

Anyone knows?
My simple understanding is that both are high levels of Realization. One happens before death and the other after death. The Great Transference happens before death where the body reverts to its natural state as a body of light whereas the second one happens after death and the body slowly shrinks until nothing is left but the impure hair and nails....hope that answers your question
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

chimechodra
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:37 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Great Transference question

Post by chimechodra » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:52 pm

Josef wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pm
one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
Does "Buddhahood in this Life" contain thogal sections that one should not read unless they have received those teachings? This would be good to know beforehand. I haven't bought the book yet so I have no idea if there's a warning somewhere, but it is on my to-read list.

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Josef » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:54 pm

chimechodra wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:52 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pm
one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
Does "Buddhahood in this Life" contain thogal sections that one should not read unless they have received those teachings? This would be good to know beforehand. I haven't bought the book yet so I have no idea if there's a warning somewhere, but it is on my to-read list.
It does contain thogal information. I do not personally think it falls under the restriction mentioned above, especially if you received the reading transmission from Tulku Dakpa.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

krodha
Posts: 2407
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Great Transference question

Post by krodha » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:00 am

Josef wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:41 pm
Yes, the Longsal Thogal and Longsal Yangti books are restricted to students who attended those retreats in person.
The Longsal Thogal was published?

Rinpoche said it was in the works at the retreat and then I never heard anything after that.

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Josef » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:25 am

krodha wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:00 am
Josef wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:41 pm
Yes, the Longsal Thogal and Longsal Yangti books are restricted to students who attended those retreats in person.
The Longsal Thogal was published?

Rinpoche said it was in the works at the retreat and then I never heard anything after that.
I don't know if it's available.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

krodha
Posts: 2407
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Great Transference question

Post by krodha » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:28 am

Josef wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:25 am
krodha wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:00 am
Josef wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:41 pm
Yes, the Longsal Thogal and Longsal Yangti books are restricted to students who attended those retreats in person.
The Longsal Thogal was published?

Rinpoche said it was in the works at the retreat and then I never heard anything after that.
I don't know if it's available.
Thanks, the only update I found was this:

  • ROOT TEXT AND COMMENTARY OF LONGSAL THODGAL

    This book contains the teaching that Chögyal Namkhai Norbu transmitted in its complete form in Tenerife, 2011.

    The text has been translated and Adriano also worked with Rinpoche a few weeks ago in May 2016 in Tenerife. Now Adriano needs to recheck it and edit in its final form, before being edited and published, hopefully by the end of this year.

From here:

http://melong.com/translation-projects-update/

There are some other great projects on the way as well.

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Great Transference question

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:41 am

guys, i just asked for the difference between great transference and rainbowlight body because i have no clue


and, if a text requieres transmision, it requires transmision, that's all. other thing is if the lama who gaves transmision says something different about this.
Identities are false and not true

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Fa Dao » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:22 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:41 am
guys, i just asked for the difference between great transference and rainbowlight body because i have no clue


and, if a text requieres transmision, it requires transmision, that's all. other thing is if the lama who gaves transmision says something different about this.
Bro..I did answer your question...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Great Transference question

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:22 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:41 am
guys, i just asked for the difference between great transference and rainbowlight body because i have no clue


and, if a text requieres transmision, it requires transmision, that's all. other thing is if the lama who gaves transmision says something different about this.
Bro..I did answer your question...
Yeah 🙇 ty, the only difference is that you mentioned?
Identities are false and not true

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28081
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:47 pm

chimechodra wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:52 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pm
one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
Does "Buddhahood in this Life" contain thogal sections that one should not read unless they have received those teachings? This would be good to know beforehand. I haven't bought the book yet so I have no idea if there's a warning somewhere, but it is on my to-read list.
I wrote:
In closing, I would like to stress that this translation has been prepared
primarily for the serious practitioner who has the transmission for the
teachings contained here. The reader should have received the necessary
empowerments and reading transmissions. The Great Perfection
tradition, like the Buddhist tradition in general, is an orally transmitted
tradition, and one cannot expect to make any progress in its teachings
without having received transmissions in a proper way. Without proper
guidance by a qualified master who has understood and realized the
meaning of the Great Perfection, one is sure either to not understand
or, perhaps worse, to misunderstand the subject matter. However, with
proper guidance by a qualified master, it is certain that one will be able
to gain confidence in one’s view and practice, and to quickly traverse
the path to perfect buddhahood.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Josef » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:36 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:47 pm
chimechodra wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:52 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pm
one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
Does "Buddhahood in this Life" contain thogal sections that one should not read unless they have received those teachings? This would be good to know beforehand. I haven't bought the book yet so I have no idea if there's a warning somewhere, but it is on my to-read list.
I wrote:
In closing, I would like to stress that this translation has been prepared
primarily for the serious practitioner who has the transmission for the
teachings contained here. The reader should have received the necessary
empowerments and reading transmissions. The Great Perfection
tradition, like the Buddhist tradition in general, is an orally transmitted
tradition, and one cannot expect to make any progress in its teachings
without having received transmissions in a proper way. Without proper
guidance by a qualified master who has understood and realized the
meaning of the Great Perfection, one is sure either to not understand
or, perhaps worse, to misunderstand the subject matter. However, with
proper guidance by a qualified master, it is certain that one will be able
to gain confidence in one’s view and practice, and to quickly traverse
the path to perfect buddhahood.
Which is a completely reasonable thing to say.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

User avatar
Fa Dao
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Fa Dao » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:34 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:22 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:41 am
guys, i just asked for the difference between great transference and rainbowlight body because i have no clue


and, if a text requieres transmision, it requires transmision, that's all. other thing is if the lama who gaves transmision says something different about this.
Bro..I did answer your question...
Yeah 🙇 ty, the only difference is that you mentioned?
There are probably more differences but the fact that one is before actual death of the body and the other is after the death of the body seems significant
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Great Transference question

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:35 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:34 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:22 pm

Bro..I did answer your question...
Yeah 🙇 ty, the only difference is that you mentioned?
There are probably more differences but the fact that one is before actual death of the body and the other is after the death of the body seems significant
yeah, it defies the law of karma :S
Identities are false and not true

krodha
Posts: 2407
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Great Transference question

Post by krodha » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:02 pm

Also, disappearance of the body does not necessarily indicate the body of light, this was discussed on here before some time ago.

User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 1862
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:22 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:35 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:34 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm


Yeah 🙇 ty, the only difference is that you mentioned?
There are probably more differences but the fact that one is before actual death of the body and the other is after the death of the body seems significant
yeah, it defies the law of karma :S
What makes you say that?

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Great Transference question

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:02 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:22 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:35 pm
Fa Dao wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:34 pm

There are probably more differences but the fact that one is before actual death of the body and the other is after the death of the body seems significant
yeah, it defies the law of karma :S
What makes you say that?
you birth and you don't die, wht can i make of that :s
Identities are false and not true

User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 1862
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:11 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:02 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:22 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:35 pm


yeah, it defies the law of karma :S
What makes you say that?
you birth and you don't die, wht can i make of that :s
Basically the rainbow body of great transference is not a karmic body. It's not like it violates the law of cause and effect, it just goes completely beyond it. In general, the teachings in various yanas don't contradict each other. There's a nice quote from Rongzom about this.

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Great Transference question

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:51 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:11 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:02 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:22 pm


What makes you say that?
you birth and you don't die, wht can i make of that :s
Basically the rainbow body of great transference is not a karmic body. It's not like it violates the law of cause and effect, it just goes completely beyond it. In general, the teachings in various yanas don't contradict each other. There's a nice quote from Rongzom about this.

yeah, but from an ordinary human body you manifest great transference: you birth but you don't die. beyhond realization i don't care much, doesn't makes sense, but at this point is something at least curious.
Identities are false and not true

User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 1862
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Great Transference question

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:18 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:51 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:11 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:02 pm


you birth and you don't die, wht can i make of that :s
Basically the rainbow body of great transference is not a karmic body. It's not like it violates the law of cause and effect, it just goes completely beyond it. In general, the teachings in various yanas don't contradict each other. There's a nice quote from Rongzom about this.

yeah, but from an ordinary human body you manifest great transference: you birth but you don't die. beyhond realization i don't care much, doesn't makes sense, but at this point is something at least curious.
My understanding is that one purifies all of their karma in this case. So I guess there's no karma to ripen as death. Just a guess, I don't have a definitive source here.

Post Reply

Return to “Dzogchen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Josef and 28 guests